# I am a true believer

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by THE PUNISHER, Jan 3, 2011.

1. Southern-Comfort, Jan 16, 2012

### Southern-Comfort Member

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So, what exactly would you accept as proof that dice can be influenced? And let's not get into stupid things like throwing a given number on demand... and I won't require a golfer to get a hole in one on demad as proof that there are different levels of golf ball influencing.

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2. kaysirtap, Jan 16, 2012

### kaysirtap Member

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I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to answer it anyway. For me, I would need slow motion video of what are supposedly controlled throws that show that at least one die is rotating in a consistent manner from throw to throw... from the point where the dice make initial contact with the table to the point where they are at rest. I would assume that it would be easier for a machine to make a precise dice throw, as opposed to humans. If a human were unable or unwilling to accomplish this feat, I would accept that it's at least possible if a machine could do it.

My main issue with dice control is that I find it difficult to believe that the rotation along all three axes (x/y/z or roll/pitch/yaw) can be kept under "control" once the dice hit the back wall. I will even concede that it's possible that a shooter can eliminate roll and yaw after the dice strike the table, but I don't believe that the pyramids can be repeatedly struck so precisely as to predict how they will behave after they bounce off the wall. If, on "controlled throws", at least one die can be shown to repeatedly rotate along its axes (even if it's rotating along all three) in the same way before it comes to a rest, that will convince me.

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3. Southern-Comfort, Jan 16, 2012

### Southern-Comfort Member

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I believe there are videos on the Internet... I'm sure I've seen some somewhere. And you and I have been over the pyramid thing.. we have different opinions and thats ok.
As I've said many times on here.. if I could prove it works, I wouldn't. Too much at risk if it is proven. But I do like to know what people are looking for as proof short of the second coming of Jesus.. or whomever/whatever you believe in. As I said earlier in the same discussion, we each believe or disbelieve in it according to our experiences... and so we are all right in our minds. Nothing wrong with that. As the say, if you instruments tell you one thing and your mind tells you something else.. go with the instruments.

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4. kaysirtap, Jan 16, 2012

### kaysirtap Member

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5. GhostRyder, Jan 16, 2012

### GhostRyder Member

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Dice setting / dice control works. I have been a random shooter for years, only betting pass and come with double odds. I have done fairly well overall with that play but one day a few months back, it finally hit me (when I had 4 dice setters at my table). It's usually always the dice setters that I'm winning money off of. It finally all made sense. for years, I would occasionally have one dice setter at my table and I would win money while they are throwing but it never really hit me until I had 4 at my table. It was the most fun I have ever had playing craps. Anyways, after getting home from vegas, I googled "how to set the dice to avoid the 7". With that search, I entered the world of dice control. I watched a ton of dice control videos online, bought a practice box with some dice, read GTC book, and practiced every day. Without a doubt, dice control works. I am hitting a ton of points for every seven that comes up. I am having the longest rolls I have ever had. I am still new to dice control as I have only been practicing a few months, both at home, and in the casino. I can't believe the results. I couldn't be happier. I can't wait until I have 6 months, a year or more of practicing everyday. Maybe not everyone can learn to be a controlled shooter, maybe thats why some people think it doesn't work, its impossible etc, but some people can control there throws, I believe a lot of people can become advantage players. It's just a matter of if you want to put the time in or not. It works, no doubt about it! I couldn't be happier.

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6. Southern-Comfort, Jan 16, 2012

### Southern-Comfort Member

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As you get better, there will come a point where you start getting 7's like crazy. Be patient and regroup, thats a sign that you are getting better. You will find you are on axis alot more often, and thats when you start dealing with the dreaded double-pitches. Thats when most people give up, I believe. But don't let it beat you, it can be dealt with.

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7. GhostRyder, Jan 16, 2012

### GhostRyder Member

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Thank you for that advice. I will keep that in mind for when the time comes.

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8. ### JHPA Member

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To me, proof is in statistics.

No, not a hole in one every time.

I have a dice game on my PC. It randomly "throws the dice". It tracks the results and compares them against what would be expected. Over time, the distribution gets more and more identical to the random expected distrbution. It is interesting that, even over a couple of hundred rolls, the actual distribution can be very different from the expected distribution. For example, as of right now, there have been 189 rolls since I last reset the counter. There have been 43 sevens rolled - a normal distribution would have 31 sevens rolled out of 189 rolls. (This does reflect what we all experince at a table, right: At a craps table, 189 rolls could take about an hour and a half. Sometimes, we see a lot more sevens during that time; other times there could be a lot less.)

So here is my test: I would believe that a certain technique for throwing is influencing the dice if the shooter kept track of throws in the same way and compared the results to what would be expected randomly. There is a statistical test which would determine - to a certain degree of confidence (for example 98%) that the actual distribution is statistically different from the expected distribution. This will take quite a number of rolls to be statistically valid....I am sure some statistician could determine the minimum number. This is not some simple experiment....I believe the number of throws to be statistically valid could be in the thousands. But, if the people who are selling books and making money off of seminars are serious about this, they could easily arrange the test.

For that matter, I would be willing to ignored the human element, have a robotic machine throw the dice identically - as long as it is on a regulation table, with pyramids and it meets the requirement to hit the back wall. If a robot could do it, I would believe that it would be theoretically posssible for a person with skill a discipline could duplicate it.

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9. tercol58, Jan 16, 2012

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