How much should you increase your bankroll by before calling it quits?

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by JimmyS1985, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. JimmyS1985, Mar 3, 2011

    JimmyS1985

    JimmyS1985 Member

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    Ive made the mistake of getting too greedy in a casino before, I had quadrupled the original bankroll I came in with and blew it all through a few bad hands of black jack. I learned from that to set a win limit so I don't endlessly chase a streak of luck that has no limits but until it runs out.

    My goal is $50 since Im working with a bankroll of $100 but Im willing to walk with as little as $20 ahead if it means I come out a winner. I set a $50 loss limit. I know it sounds boring, but the last 4x Ive been gambling at the casino between the craps table and baccarat, Ive doubled my bankroll + $15. I know doesn't sound anything thrilling as if it had been a $500 bankroll, but I play for fun rather than to make money, also so I do not walk out of the casino a big loser that I have to make up through wages earned at my job.

    The DOn't Pass line has been kind to me the last couple of times Ive played it.
     
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  2. goatcabin, Mar 5, 2011

    goatcabin

    goatcabin Member

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    You realize, of course, that you are not "working with a bankroll of $100" if you "set a $50 loss limit". You are working with a $50 bankroll. That means that your goal is to double your bankroll, not win half of it.

    Your chances of reaching a win goal are most affected by the amount of variance in your strategy, however.
    Look here:
    $5 DP, lay single odds
    20,000 sessions
    session ends if:
    1) you don't have enough money for the next bet
    OR
    2) you get ahead by $50 or more
    OR
    3) 60 resolved bets (roughly two hours' play)

    Code:
    param          $50 BR     $100 BR   $200 BR
    bust:            50.3%      20.9%      1.0%
    reach goal:      42.3%      46.5%     47.6%
    bet limit:        7.4%      32.6%     51.4%
    avg. net:       -$1.50     -$3.50    -$2.50
    SD:                $49        $63       $66
    wins:             9164      10973     11271
    even:               18         70        61
    losses:          10818       8957      8668
    
    With a $50 loss limit, you're going to be out of the game within two hours about half the time, but you still have a decent shot at winning your $50 and walking. The main effect of a larger bankroll is that you have a better shot at a winning session, because you don't bust as much.
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
    Woodland, CA
     
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  3. basicstrategy777, Mar 5, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    It is easier to make 10 % than 50%.

    The lower your win goal the easier to achieve it.

    Can you make 10 dollars starting with 100 ? Easy right . If so, it should be just as easy to make 1000 starting with 10,000.
    The same 10 %.

    Greed is the biggest ally of the casino.


    777
     
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  4. justfewmorerolls, Mar 6, 2011

    justfewmorerolls

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    I would never quit when everything is going well. Why is it that on the bad days, one has to loose their bankroll before leaving the casino. Then on a good day try to limit their winning because of fear. It should be the other way around.
    If I'm down for the day and just tired or lost confidence in my play, than stop. Save whats left and added to your bankroll on your next visit.
    If I'm winning, I will play with the winning money and start from the beginning again, as if I just walked into the casino doors.
    If I loose back some of my winnings, that is the sign for me to stop for the day.
     
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  5. The Midnight Skulker, Mar 24, 2011

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Caeteris paribus, yes, it should be as easy to turn $100 into $110 as it is to turn $10000 into $11000. Other things may not be equal, however. One of the reasons for table limits is to prevent whales from putting a dent in the house's bottom line with a spread of big bets that is favored to win more times than it loses. IOW table limits are meant to allow the house advantage time to take its toll. So, if the $10k bankroller did not hit any constraints (like table limits) that the $100 bankroller did not hit, then both players would have the same chance of reaching their win goal if they played the same game, and used the same strategy and the same relative bet sizes.
     
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  6. Hardeight, Mar 25, 2011

    Hardeight

    Hardeight Member

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    Well it depends I am getting to the point where I am disciplning myself to quit at $75 to $100 at the local spots.But when I get to AC I get a different attitude and think I should make more because its farther away and I want to make extra profit to cover the bus fare.But I have to realize that a gain is a gain no matter how little it may seem.

    The "sign"I to stop playing is when I hear other players saying how much they lost then you say to yourself "dont be like this fool bail out...theres always another day"
     
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  7. The Midnight Skulker, Mar 30, 2011

    The Midnight Skulker

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    This effect is a contributor to what is sometimes called "the hidden house advantage". Having traveled a significant time and distance to get to a casino, players can feel the need to add transportation, lodging, and meal expenses to their normal win goal. IMHO, however, the major factor of that hidden advantage is time. Even someone playing at a casino within walking distance of his/her house has allocated some minimum amount of time to playing. Reaching a win goal or loss limit before that minimum amount of time has expired (or in the case of a non-local, before his/her transportation is scheduled to leave for home) makes the player find something else to do, which the player may find more difficult than continuing to play.
     
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  8. basicstrategy777, Mar 30, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    Exellent point midnite.

    Reaching your win goal quickly can be a pain in the butt to some people. I remember one time I drove to the casino ( about an hour away ) and made 800 bucks in 20 minutes....I told my buddy "we're leaving" He said, "what the hell are you talking about, we just got here." We left.

    Here is a case where neither of us was happy about the sutuation ( I really would have liked to play more ).

    When you think about it.....is there a time when you are totally happy when leaving a casino. People always seem to be not quite totally happy....win or lose. Probably that human nature stuff is where they really got us.


    777
     
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  9. The Midnight Skulker, Mar 30, 2011

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Even when I have the bankroll and time to stay overnight at my local haunt I do not reserve a room. That way, if I win or lose too much too quickly I am not "locked in" to staying the night.
    Total happiness? I was going to cite my most profitable visit -- I won $3000 one evening at Spirit Mountain, a Native American joint in the middle of nowhere in Oregon -- but I didn't get out of the place until the wee hours of the morning, and I had to be on a job site and at least quasi-functional that same morning!
     
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  10. $nakeEye$, May 15, 2011

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    I had read somewhere - can't exactly recall where or by whom - but the author's attitde was -

    ALWAYS LIMIT YOUR LOSSES - BUT NEVER YOUR WINS !

    Sounds like good advice to me.
     
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  11. basicstrategy777, May 15, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    One of the commandments: Never bet out of a winning streak. You ride the horse till it drops.

    Always a floor on your losses, never a ceiling on your wins.

    777
     
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  12. siik2nr, Oct 11, 2011

    siik2nr

    siik2nr Member

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    The biggest factor in your question is how often do you gamble? If you go a lot, then your winning amount should be less before you leave, If you don't go very often, then you can stay to win a little more.

    The problem lies with players who go to the casino often. Even if they leave a winner, the money in their pocket is just there temporarily, as it will be used again to gamble the next visit and inevidably end up back to the casino.

    When you win money, it's just more money to gamble.

    So..... when you win.... put a percentage away to savings...not gambling. Put a percentage away for shopping and buy something.

    Nothing worse then winning big......to give it back the next week like you never won at all.

    Sometimes I will use winning money for daily expenses....and not go back to the casino until I've exhausted the winning cash.

    When I do go back...I use my limit for the trip and that way I'm not at risk of losing my entire winning bankroll from a previous visit.
     
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  13. arrgy

    arrgy Member

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    If I am winning I do the rule of thirds.

    I take my winnings and divide into thirds on the rack, and only gamble with one third of it, the other two thirds stays in my rack. If I run out of that one third rack, I'm gone.
     
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  14. thecrazymr, Sep 9, 2012

    thecrazymr

    thecrazymr Member

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    That rule of thirds should be applied to any winnings taken home from a casino.

    1/3 use for expenses in the household
    1/3 invest in a retirement account
    1/3 add to future gaming sessions

    This way, every time you have a losing session, it is only what you save to take.
    Every time you have a winning session, the three parts of life are covered. Living, Playing, Retireing.
     
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  15. FatKatz, Sep 25, 2013

    FatKatz

    FatKatz Member

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    Money management is the key to any successful outcome over the long term. I've spent the past week or so reading just about every thread in this forum. Some very knowledgeable people with some good things to share. I'm primarily a high risk stock trader, but I have bellied up to the craps table more than a few times. I don't pretend to have any favorite system, but I am a system player and a numbers kind of guy. I'll share what money management means to a stock trader and you'll see many similarities to gambling. There are some obvious differences, but many parallels as well. I hope you find this useful. In a nutshell, you better know your exit plan before to ever enter.

    Trading a technical methodology or a technical pattern does not have anything to do with being right or wrong. It’s just an odds game. You've got to be able to take every single trade because you don’t know the sequence of wins and losses. You've got to be able to identify what your risk is and that’s simply ”˜How much am I willing to spend to find out if other traders are going to come into this market and bid it higher than my price or offer lower than my price if I sold?’

    The solution is to change your mind, to change the way you think. You've got to eliminate the potential to think that the market’s going to disappoint you. And the way [you] eliminate the potential is by understanding that trading is not about being right or wrong. It’s a probability game.

    There are stages of development such as learning how to think in probabilities so the market doesn't have the potential to cause us to feel emotional pain.

    When you put on a trade and it doesn't work, all it really means is that some of the traders didn't come into the market that had the same belief that you had, or the same conviction about this market doing whatever it is you thought it was going to do. You have to learn to walk away.

    We can’t predict collective human behavior. The methodologies that we have access to, these mathematical formulas, do that for us. But you have to understand that there’s no possible way that these mathematical formulas can predict the outcome of these patterns on a trade by trade basis, only on a series of trades.

    So when I get a signal from my methodology, at the most fundamental level what this is telling me is that the odds are in my favor that somebody is going to come into the market (this is what the pattern means) and bid it higher than here if I bought or offer it lower than here if I sold. That’s all that it’s saying. Now they’re either gonna come or they’re not, and so as a result I don’t look at this as being a ”˜right’ or a ”˜wrong’; I look at this as ”˜How much distance am I going to give the market to move away from my entry point to tell me that they’re either going to come or they’re not, and any further is not worth the cost of finding out.’
     
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  16. SevenOut, Sep 26, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Some of the best Posts on the Forum!

    Now, if any of you can spare any time... help clear up some other "issues" that need insight and experience on other Topics.

    Bankroll is pre determined BEFORE you step into the Casino. Your bankroll must be realistic, as well. If the minimum Pass Line bets are $3, you might be able to survive a few losses before your bankroll is too "short" to play your game with $100. At a $10 table a $100 bankroll is best kept in your wallet. My bankroll is predetermined at home, usually $200 and no more than $300 for $5 tables. My "total loss" is my bankroll. Some times I will limit my losses when playing becomes a real grind and just back off and leave! My wins are UNLIMITED and I must then decide on the last Seven Out if that is it for this time and moment at the table, leaving my winnings as losing bets at the table.

    As I play for recreation and winning... I will play until my bankroll can be marked off with a $1 chip and any additional wins added to cover gas, meals, future bankroll and the like. If there is enough left in my chip rack to play "my game", I go for it with the idea that I have already locked up winnings, have my bankroll and I am unfettered to "go for it". Some times the amount left to expose to the House is not enough for a serious game, so I color up and feel good about it. At least if you lose the "go for it" you do not have gamblers remorse, afterwards

    Even if you can leave with even money... you had fun and are a winner. It does not hurt to have this philosophy with a $200/$300 bankroll: One Dollar and Five Dollar chips are for fun, $25 chips go straight into my front pocket not to be see daylight until at the Cashier! And color up the larger winnings into $25 chips... you might have noticed the table's dealers like to shove more $5 chips on pay outs, just to give you the impression that your bankroll is now... unlimited. (Those sly old fox dealers.)

    Knowing how to play Craps is one thing. Managing your Bank Roll is smart, no matter what your game strategy!
     
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  17. mycoalsmith, Sep 26, 2013

    mycoalsmith

    mycoalsmith Member

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    Hmmmm . . . . . . some of the people I've seen at the casinos, the living expenses, the retirement account and gaming account are one and the same!!!
     
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  18. mrjohnrstevens, Sep 26, 2013

    mrjohnrstevens

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    Most sysems sellers say 5% some 10% A common rule is if you double your money,leave.
     
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  19. flyguyfl, Sep 27, 2013

    flyguyfl

    flyguyfl Member

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    My goal in Video Poker is double your money and then take it and run. I think I would be happy to add 50% to my BR in Craps and take the money then. Like many of you I would never quit while on a winning streak and be quite content to add more than that 50% but definitely quit should that level be reached on the way down.
     
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  20. KokomoJoe4, Sep 28, 2013

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Why in the world would you want to set a limit on your winnings? Greed has nothing to do with it. Set an absolute limit on your losses, but never on your winnings. Keep increasing your bets if/as you win. Very quickly, even after as few as two winners in a row, you can increase your bet/odds and still be ahead on the shoot at hand.

    Personally, when I'm up by as little as $75, I place a $25/$50 or a $10/$60 bet (ten times odds where I usually play). If that hits, regardless of the point hit, its up to
    $50/$100 or $20/$120.

    Sure there are times when you literally can not buy a winner - on days like that, get out after you've lost five or so straight $10/$10 bets.

    I never buy in for more than $300 at a time, and have decided never to leave a casino more than a $150 loser. Sometimes its not easy to leave, especially when it happens in a matter of four ot five minutes.

    One time, when up about $100, I hit pass/odds winners at 10/60, 25/100, 30/200, 30/300, 50/500, 80/800, 125/1250, then hit a natural winner at 250, let it ride and made the point without odds, then placed and hit another point at 250/2500 before finally sevening out playing 400/4000. It sucked to lose over four grand on a single roll of the dice, but you have to be aggressive when you're playing with money that hasn't been yours for long (notice I didnt say their money).
     
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