How many "games" do you carry in your bag of tricks?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Onautopilot, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. von duck, Mar 27, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Correct, and financialy speaking, staying home, would be better than any betting strategy we could come up with, but we're not going to do that, are we? No we're not.
     
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  2. Onautopilot, Mar 27, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    No we are not, that is why the term "better" is subjective in selecting craps strategies......what are your goals and resources for a select session at the table.......they can be many and varied.

    That is why Koko's opinion might be valid for one approach, but not for another...but not wrong!
     
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  3. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    I play bubble craps and if I can get nonrandom rolls, I get income from another source (which I am not proud to admit).

    First, as a Don't Pass & Pass line bettor, I am expected to lose once every 36 rolls, on average, due to box cars. If my unit is $6 (sometimes it's $15 or $30), then I lose $6 on average every 36 rolls. At 70 to 80 rolls an hour, it becomes obvious I can only have losing sessions. My typical sessions results are mostly break-even at +$10 to -$20 (recall my income is from casino comps & free play, etc). Let's say I got 10 box cars during my session so I am down $60 (or $150 or $300). To get to my typical results, I wait to bet on numbers during a hot shooter, I bet on 7 outs, etc. If there is no hot shooter for the session, then I would have a bad session. Waiting to bet until a hot shooter showing up is a low cost passive strategy; getting nonrandom rolls to effect a hot shooter is an active strategy that I am still working on.

    Separately, many of the regulars know I am a good shooter but I keep telling them it has to do with how the dice is working at that time. Anyway, I've been tipped $100 (a benji) for rolling a hot shooter and one guy gave me $40 tip when I rolled two hot shooters and that guy went from being stuck $500 to up $1,200 in under an hour -- $1,700 win in under an hour is nice.

    I tell you why being identified as a good shooter can be a problem - one time, one guy was betting the max on the machine and had hundreds riding on bets and he kept pressuring me to roll for him. One time he rolled the 6 as a point by "accident" and then begged me to roll so I took over. I remember hitting the 8 three times because each time the game would pay out almost $900 (win plus return of the original bet). I guesstimate I made over $2K in a total of 8 rolls before hitting the point. I was upset because it was clearly a ruse by the guy to get me to roll so he could make more money. I immediately left after the point and then avoided the guy like a plague.

    The tips are nice, but I decided to play when casino is slow so I can continue my research in piece.

    In summary, if are patient in Aruze and can wait for a hot shooter, my research tells me that certain "series" are candidates for hot shooters and while each candidate is not a guarantee, you will still be profitable waiting for hot shooters. These are another example of nonrandom rolls. The variance unfortunately is quite high.

    PS. The Aruze machine can only hold 10K in credits or $10K, and any win or wins that result in the credits being over 10K would be spit out as a separate ticket. Suppose the guy had $9,700 in credits and then won $700 on the next bet; that $700 win would spin out as a ticket as opposed to the credits ending up at $10,400. We have regulars that bet big that routinely spit out tickets. The hard part is *NOT* to win $1,200 or more because it generates a W2G but also locks up the machine. A $400 buy bet on the 4 won't lock up the machine if a 4 shows up, but that same $400 bet along with a $100 field bet will lock the machine on a 4.
     
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  4. 8DWU8

    8DWU8 Member

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    After 5 count, I do CB with 2x odds place 6&8. If either CB is 6 or 8 then I place bet the other and only have two numbers working. After a couple of hits I'll place the 4 or 10 and start the Army March bet. I'll also mixin a hard 8 every so often. After about four hits I start pressing my bets every other hit. If I don't hit any bets in three rolls then I call everything off and wait until back to back box numbers are rolled to turn them back on.

    When I make it through the 5 count and place all my bets and I don't hit a single bet then next shooter I DC with 1x lay. I'll increase my lay bet as the hand goes on. Once that bet gets picked off I jump back to the right side.

    I also do something I call the 3 strikes rule for me. If my CB and place bets get wiped clean without a single hit then that's strike one. After strike two I'm at a 50% win goal. After strike three I'm just trying to break even. I DC the rest of the shooters until I either get back to even or it's my turn to shoot. Once I'm done shooting then I leave with whatever I have left.
     
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  5. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    Ran into a buddy last night. He came to cash in his free play for him and wife accounts. Then he takes the cash and sees how many points he can get for both accounts on the casino's money. He plays pass & don't pass on both machines (two different cards) and then bets numbers on one of the machines. He is betting $5: $1 on each box number except the point.

    Since I sat down and started talking, I ended up working the machine on his wife's card. Before I knew it, it was my turn to shoot. So my buddy let's me shoot on the casino's money. I wasn't ready but what the hell.

    Made the first point after 5 rolls. Then I made the second point and my buddy comments how I didn't roll any horn bets -- it was all box numbers and points. On my third series, I made hot shooter status (20 consecutive rolls without a red 7).

    Here's where it got surreal -- to help keep me concentrated on non-random rolls, I would predict out loud the next number, usually the sum of the opposite sides. For example, it the dice was a 4 with a 1 & 3, the opposite sides would be 6 & 4, respectively, to sum to 10 (in standard dice, the opposite sides all sum to 7). So when the dice was showing 4,5, or 6, I would tell everyone that I was shooting high and going for 8,9, or 10. After I did 10 or 12 rolls, many of the bettors started to notice the pattern, a high box number (8,9,or 10) would be followed by a low box number (4,5 or 6). It wasn't perfect but enough of a see-saw pattern existed -- the machine shows the last 15 numbers it was obvious it was alternating between high and low numbers. Even my buddy could not believe how many box numbers I was rolling.

    Sometimes, I would aim too low and get craps or acey duecy or aim to high and get yo's or box cars. The guy sitting next to me started betting the horn and he won 4 of them in less than 9 rolls. A $4 bet got him $31 on craps or box cars. He was a happy camper.

    Since I hadn't plan to shoot, I didn't write number the numbers but by the 30th roll, I was starting to get tired. It was easily over 40 rolls and the people just could not believe how accurate I was at alternating high box numbers followed by low box numbers. Finally, I rolled a 7 out. I just got tired -- it's a lot of work eyeballing the dice (some people uses the term "visual ballistics", which is not correct), calculating dice rotation, getting the dice to stick when they land, measuring the force of the motor on the vibrating place, etc. The alternating between high numbers and low numbers was not an accident. Even I was scared at how successful I was doing it for so many rolls.

    Anyway, buddy had to cash out the tickets to rebalance the cash. He comes back and gives me a $5 tip and I am like for real??? He then tells me I made him $71. I was stunned. Buddy was pressing $1 on each winning box number -- so he started with $5, $1 on each except the point and despite the 7 out at the end, he still made $71 from $5 or 14X return. Wow. In that series, I rolled two 7's: one blue 7 and the last one was a red 7.
     
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  6. Spike8850, May 27, 2017

    Spike8850

    Spike8850 Member

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    Do you change bet amounts in the middle of a hand, say you're at the $20 level and hit a few parlays, bringing your loss down? Also, say you have a monster hand, say you're up over $100. Do you increase your base bet, to say, $7? Do you stay, giving yourself a chance to win more, or are you more inclined to bail out? Just curious, sounds like a fun way to play. I'm normally a DC with single odds guy, but always on the lookout for right side strategies.
     
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  7. Onautopilot, May 27, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    I usually play a set bet in a hand, the base bet and then a parlay. If the hand extends for any length of time, I might go to a double parlay. If the hand is a winner for me, I just repeat the bets on the next hand. If the hand was a loser, I usually up my bet one unit, win that one, I drop back to the last hand level bets. If I happen to lose it though, I up the bets one more unit on the next hand.

    So what it amounts to, is up a unit on losing hands, down a unit on winning hands. With this strategy, I can still come out a winner, even if I have had more losing hands than winning ones.

    Thanks for asking....and your DP with single odds is one of the lowest EV strategies you can play. The odds does increase the possible volatility some, but not that much at single odds.

    Good luck on your next session....and all of them in fact!
     
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  8. Mssthis1, Oct 19, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    I like this play, especially on the bubbles where you units don't have to be a proper bet sizing.

    Good stuff.
     
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  9. James Hall, Oct 19, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Up a unit after a loss
    and down a unit after a win???
     
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  10. eagleeye2, Oct 21, 2018

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Mssthis1,

    Yah, why go ""Proper Bet Sizing"", where one dose not have to; makes sense ONLY to a degenerate Craps Player.

    It's obvious that the Casino additional Mathematical advantage makes perfect sense to you!

    eagleeye2
     
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  11. Mssthis1, Oct 21, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    The additional casino advantage is on the regular craps table and I always make proper bets on the regular table. Bubble is superior. A $7, 5 or 9 on a craps table pays $9, on the bubble it pays pays $9.71 or $9.97 depending on how the software is programmed. You can buy the 5 and 9 at the minimum bet on all bubbles. Same with 4 and 10. They figure the vig to the penny, not $1 min like a regular table.

    Same with a 6 or 8. If you place it for $13 you get paid to the penny on the bubble. On a regular table you would get $15.00 and they chumped you out of 16 or 17 cents.

    Odds are the same way. Improper $5 odds on a 5 or 9 gets $7.50. On a regular table you'd get $7.

    Opens up a whole new world of possibilities as far as progressions and regressions.

    Same thing on the dark side. You can lay a number as low as the table min and they calculate the vig to the penny and the vig is only collected if the bet is won. Lay the 4 for $10 on a bubble and you get $4.75. Lay the four for $10 on a regular table and you will get $4 if they will even book the bet. Most places won't.
     
    #31
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  12. eagleeye2, Oct 21, 2018

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Mssthis1,

    Sorry Mssthis1, I have never played the bubble, did not realize that they paid to the penny on other than ""Proper Bet sizing"".

    But, with Table Craps, proper bet sizing is necessary, & most Craps crews will tell you if you mess it up.

    eagleeye2
     
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  13. Mssthis1, Oct 21, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    No problem.
     
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  14. James Hall, Oct 21, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Well it becomes crystal clear how they are moving
    random players to the machines from the craps tables
    that 16 cents speaks volumes.
    One hundred wins would come out to an additional $16
     
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  15. James Hall, Oct 21, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Well it becomes crystal clear how they are moving
    random players to the machines from the craps tables
    that 16 cents speaks volumes.
    One hundred wins would come out to an additional $16
     
    #35
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