HOW can you be a DICE PLAYER and remain IGNORANT of the GAME?

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by SevenOut, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. SevenOut, Sep 2, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Somewhere, and I failed to find out where... there was a Topic about what it takes to be a Craps Expert. Before I get to less important things in the world events around me, I wanted to ADD this and throw this out. If you find the Topic, where is it or where did it go? It was presented by an author of a Craps book that posts from time to time.

    There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between an Expert Player and an Expert DEALER! There will never be many Expert Players. There are hundreds if not thousands of Expert Dealers. Can YOU give me the answer? This is not a stink bait with hook begging the question. There are fundamental differences. For the one who has the correct answer, I would love to be able to offer a modest prize of some kind... but no matter... lets hear it!

    Good Bye for now. Keep your game tight. Watch that bankroll. We are ALL learning each time we step up to a Craps table.
     
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  2. jkluv7, Sep 3, 2013

    jkluv7

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    I have found the best way to control your bankroll is for you to control the dice. The best way to manage your wins is for you to control the dice. Just got back from a glorious weekend at A/C, up a few thousand dollars because I controlled and threw the dice. Hit four fire-bets(2 fours and 2 fives) and lots and lots of box numbers. Bet very conservatively on the Randies, just the 6/8, one or two hits and down. All these 'systems' are for the birds... you control the dice, you do the throwing, make smart bets and the game is easy. It is always so amusing, and sad at the same time, to watch someone buy in for 200 or 300, just to walk away in 20-30 minutes due to betting on 'hope', and floating away on the river named 'denial'. I have nothing to sell, other than practice. Practice throwing, practice betting based on your throws and the world is truely your oyster...

    Jeffrey
     
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  3. SevenOut, Sep 7, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Would some of you please take a look at the Beginner Discussion and participate on the Holy Grail of Players title? If you have a question... make the question complete and detailed. I was hoping a current Craps Dealer would work a Holy Grail for Dealers... as there is a very BIG difference between the two.

    If you think you have, or have an answer to a question, give it a try. This is a participation sport to learn. NOBODY is going to criticize a wrong answer. The tougher the question... the tougher it will be to figure it out... but kudos to those who ASK and those who ANSWER.

    The Beginner Craps is suppose to be a part of the Forum to learn. You cannot learn unless you try to work it out yourself. The Holy Grail for Players is not to discover a winning system. The intent is to understand the Basic Mathematics of Craps. The second question involving Iron Cross needs to be defined for those who are not familiar and I hope all of you put in your OPINION.

    I am also finding that "modern terminology" like Iron Cross and Fire Bets are not in my vocabulary and others could use a definition to understand statements better. Each Craps player has a "game personality" at a live table and uses the terminology that applies to their game. Some of the dice setters and system bettors will use terminology that they understand... but leaves me and probably others to wonder what they are talking about.

    By the way. I had a comment that I should not YELL at them in my comments.? I do not know how that could be taken... but ALL of my posts are whispered. Read my posts as a whisper and you will see how by reading a statement can be misinterpreted. If you whisper... people wonder what is up and take notice.
     
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  4. DarkSiderRidah, Sep 7, 2013

    DarkSiderRidah

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    Quite an 89 chapter novel you got here SevenOut. This thread has totally mutated from its initial intent and should be destroyed.
    Casino's thrive on uneducated gamblers, true. One must take precaution and critically think about the advice offered here on the Craps Forum, true.
    It's your job to weed out the nuggets of wisdom from amongst the "fog machines" (as you put it).

    Some people can simply grasp the concept and odds of the game more efficiently than others. There is nothing that can be done about this.

    Good luck with your wagers, Seven Out. Remember to relax, not over-think and keep your composure at the table. lol

    -DSR
     
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  5. SevenOut, Sep 12, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    All I ask when I am playing my game... just throw those Hard Eights and Sixes. This is my profit maker when playing my inside game. Sometimes you may see a lot of Hard fours and tens while I am on an inside Point and my game and NO hard sixes or eights. But... there are those games where I am buying the Farm with hardway wins and pressing up.

    You are 100% on the money on your last statement! The key to success at a Craps Table is not to over react to wins or losses. You have to make RATIONAL decisions... not impulsive reactions to any win or loss. Play the game as planned and as your bankroll increases... then take on one or more "sucker" bets.

    Study the Holy Grail for Craps Players, post 1. It is simple. It is accurate. If you understand the odds and how to cover the sucker bets, like my hardways, you just might come around to the bright lights of knowing what you are doing, while the majority are wondering where did the money go???

    You are not competing with the total number combination of a pair of dice after a roll. You are competing against the poor bets being made, that do not take into consideration the dice combinations and your reasoning for making those bets in the first place.
     
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  6. eddiebones, Apr 26, 2014

    eddiebones

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    Advanced Craps Players, I love it! Why are little children and old people so similar at the opposite end of life's journey? Do you think it's a coincidence? Advanced Craps Players what a bunch of egotistical b.s. the Game is the same, mathematically.et al,from the first day you play it till the last, the only difference is what you have learned Not to do- assume that the mathematics trump the unforseen future, or think that you have a system that is undefeatable.The physical world can be manipulated, the mathematical world cannot, that's why they call it the purest science and that's why it's adherents are so ignorant and intelligent at the same time, Irony, eh!!
     
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  7. TDVegas, Apr 26, 2014

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    The game is built on math. Math doesn't lie. The house has an edge on every bet. Over the long haul of playing, you will lose. Once you understand that, you realize the game is for ENJOYMENT. Nothing else.
     
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  8. superrick, Apr 26, 2014

    superrick

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    There are no experts on the game of craps! There are a lot of individuals that loved to project that they are experts on the game of craps, that goes for the authors of many of the books you read on the game of craps or any other game that you play in the casinos.


    There are also many posters that post all the time that don't even play the game, but yet they put themselves out there as experts on the game of craps. Just when you think you know it all the game will beat you really bad if you let it! What you read and take for the gospel, on a lot of the boards will work sometimes, but just like everything else will fail you the next time you play craps!

    That is a very bold statement to make, actually, the math of the game is only for the casinos, and that is what most craps players will never understand. Most craps players can't tell you how the casinos make money off the game of craps, hell even some of the casino management don't know! It shows with some of the stupid things they do that run off their players!


    Most player only play craps for the fun of it, every time I hear that I want to puke, because with that attitude the only way that they will ever win is to just get lucky! They fall into the trap, that nothing matters with what they do when they are playing craps! They never learn table etiquette, they throw money in as the shooter is shooting, they stack there chips as high as they can get them, right were the shooter is landing their dice and my list goes on and on.

    The day of the expert craps dealers is coming to a end, when they started tip sharing it killed them. Now days they are there to pick-up an envelope with their tips that others have made for them, they simply do not care about customer service and casino customer relationships! You can see this every day on the craps tables if you are setting the dice, these craps dealers now days get their jollies, by cutting down anybody that is doing something that they don't like! Professionalism went out the door, there is no code of conduct, when it comes to customers relationships.


    With corporate management, the mentality is there should only be losers, and if there are winners the dealers are doing something wrong! So anymore the dealers just don't care about what they are doing, their only there to protect their jobs and pick-up a pay check at the end of the week.


    http://urbino.net/articles.cfm?specificArticle=Table Games are not Fun any longer


    In the good old days dealers worked at how they provided customers service, they knew if the customer happy, their paycheck from their tips would be kept at a high level because of the service that they provide!
     
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  9. TDVegas, Apr 26, 2014

    TDVegas

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    "Most player only play craps for the fun of it, every time I hear that I want to puke, because with that attitude the only way that they will ever win is to just get lucky! They fall into the trap, that nothing matters with what they do when they are playing craps!"
    -----------------
    Kind of a ridiculous statement. Having fun doesn't have to mean taking the garbage bets. Having fun could mean taking a pass line bet with 2x odds and nothing more. The point is the game is for entertainment or enjoyment because it's a negative expectation game. There is no other reason to play. Spare me the dice influencers or obie telling me he's won 700 out of 701 times. Can people win? Sure. Will they win as regular players? No. I always advise to make bets which give you the best odds. In other words, avoid the sucker bets. Your money will last longer.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
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  10. superrick, Apr 27, 2014

    superrick

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    So what you are saying is you don't mind losing, because you know your playing a negative game? If that is the case, you fall into the trap that all casinos want you in. You probably think the only way you can win at craps is with just luck, you wouldn't take the time to try to understand what you are up against every time you walk into a casino.

    Most players would never take the time to read anything on the games they are playing. They would never read anything on casino management to try to understand what they are up against. Standing at a craps table and betting a pass-line bet with only two times odds does not mean that you have a chance of winning, it only means that you will always be a loser, because as you already said you are after all playing a negative game.

    I could never see how anybody can get entrainment out of losing money, but there are many among us, that think its fun to lose their money, and won't do anything about it, they are the ones that keep the tables open and the casinos in business.

    You don't have to be a DI to stand a chance at winning playing craps. The one thing you do need is a very well rounded understanding of the game and what you are up against.
    Anybody that takes the time to read this board should know that there is no system that will work all of the time, so the I won 700 out of 701 times is just La, La land!

    Lets take a look at what you had to say about the pass line bet with 2x odds and nothing more! Have you ever taking the time to figure out what you are doing with that type of betting? The reason I'm asking is to wake you up to a fact that it's a bad bet, just because all you the books say its one of the best way of playing doesn't mean that its a good bet, you have been hoodwinked into making a bet that is actually a bad bet.

    I will use your passline with 2x odds as an example of how uninformed craps players are taking every day. Your shooter just established the ten as their point. You bet a 5$ passline bet and took $10 in the so-called free odds. That is what all the books tell you to do, its a great way to play you say.

    You have $15 at risk, on a point that the same books say is a bad bet to bet on the 10, lets see how you do with your bet, compared to a $15 place bet on the same box number.

    You get paid $5 for your pass-line bet, and $20 for your so-called free odds, for a grand total of $25.

    While stupid little old me, that took the time to do some reading, and got all the information I could about playing and betting the game place the 10 for the same $15, now for the pay-out on my bet, the casino will pay me 9-5 on my place bet, so I just made $27, now of course that's if your not at a table that has a so-called free buy bet on the bet, then they will pay me $29 if I drop them $1.

    Gee,... some how your math just doesn't add up, maybe you should take some of that money that you have no problem losing for your entertainment or enjoyment, and spend a few of those red chips on some good books on the game of craps that are not telling you that your passline bet with two times odds is a good bet!

    So maybe having fun does, mean taking garbage bets after all, you have the right to having all the fun you want to but please don't drag everybody down with you! Craps is not a game that should be taking lightly, if you are going to play, it pays to do a lot of reading, and spending the time to figure things out for yourself. Just because it's written in a book doesn't mean that it's right!

    I can see how you have been taking in by what has been written, its not your fault, all I'm trying to do is to get you to realize what you read isn't always the truth!


    As one of the DI's and author had to say, in the title of one of his books, “Wake Up Craps Shooter” by Charles C. Westcott, I think that everybody that plays the game should wake-up and read anything they can get their hand on that has to do with craps, and casino management. The more you read the better understanding you will have of the game you are playing.

    Don't just buy one book and think that what the author had to say was right, by doing so I'm sure you will get more enjoyment out of playing craps, when you do start to win more often!
     
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  11. eddiebones, Apr 27, 2014

    eddiebones

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    Nicely put Srick,
    I personally don't believe anyone gambles money for fun at a casino, that is a rationalization for losing. I have never met any sane person, rich or poor, that doesn't try to get the best value for their money. Some exceptions are when you're with someone else, either business or personal, and you want to impress or please-- you'll buy them that 8 dollar beer or 10 dollar desert, etc...that you would never buy yourself alone. Point being you gamble to win. Is there any fun in losing your hard earned money on a game that you know is a negative sum game? C,' mon man. That pass line bet with " free" odds is one of the casinos sucker bets also because you're locked in to wait for a resolution that is negative, and especially so if it's not the 6 & 8. Knowledge of the "product" that your spending your money on is important and ongoing, even then our emotions sometimes take over and convince us to make bets that we know we shouldn't make, it is those times when I'm having fun at craps usually with house money and when I'm getting ready to leave. Every other time it's a WAR to get their money! Game On!! Good luck however you play.
     
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  12. TDVegas, Apr 27, 2014

    TDVegas

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    First off, when someone says their betting strategy is "pass line with 2x odds", No one on this board with a brain thinks that means you make that bet AFTER the point is established nor did I say that AND there is NO book that suggests that type of strategy anywhere. Only uninformed craps players would think that. Why on earth would you make that statement that the books tell you to do that? Simply false.
    Everyone on this board knows that if I say my betting strategy is pass line with 2X odds, they know that strategy begins with the come-out roll and then odds are placed.
    I'll phrase it differently for you even though I should not have to...
    Before come out roll...Pass line bet $5.....after point is established...2X odds. That is what craps players call a pass line with 2x odds strategy. I didn't think I had to do it that way for you to understand, but whatever. A pass line bet @comeout with 2X odds taken after point established will cut the house edge down below 1%. Anyone calling that a sucker bet is totally misinformed about the game and should be playing slots instead. Your place 10 bet yields a house edge of 6.67%. if you want to explain how you are making a better bet, I'm all ears.
     
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  13. TDVegas, Apr 27, 2014

    TDVegas

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    They are ALL "negative" bets, eddiebones. There is no such thing as a "positive" expectation bet. The pass line bet with odds is one of the best bets in the entire casino in terms of low house edge. As you are a 35 year player, the fact that you don't know that is kind of odd. Once again, craps players worth their salt know that bet starts on the come out roll. Of course short term variance comes into play with any bet. Anyone calling that a sucker bet is grossly misinformed about the game of craps.
     
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  14. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Im not promoting anything, but I think someone like you would enjoy sitting at a bubble craps machine where they show you when the last hard 6 or 8 was hit.
    If you had patience, when the count gets high enough, just start betting them.
    Ive never seen the count higher than 220 rolls.(ok, maybe I have but not the last 6 or 8 months if I recall correctly)
    I rarely see it higher than 150 rolls.
    Id say seeing the count over 100 nowadays seems to be a lot.

    while youre resting from standing at a table, you should sit at a 2 dollars bubble craps with an adult beverage, or glass of iced tea, soda, etc......and see if the hard 6 or 8 hit is inevitable.
    for me, even though I at real craps tables I play limited hardways only when Im up a bit, Ive been about 90% successful at Aqueduct bubble craps waiting for a hard way to come up after 120-140 rolls of no hit.
    Im saying positive, not up 1000 dollars, but up enough that putting 10 or 2o on it will make me a profit before too many 7 outs or soft numbers kill the profit.
    I just don't have the patience or care to sit and watch it all day long waiting for a long count.
    I was there this morning, met my wife and her buddies for a late breakfast, brunch?(bagel and coffee for me, hardly brunch), I didn't play, but I walked over to an empty terminal and pulled up the hardway count, there wasn't one of them over 30, so I walked.
    I went to the other terminals in the back, same thing, I believe hard 10 was 52 or something, but not enough to coax me to play.(and Id rather take 6 0r 8 for more moolah)

    The more I play bubble craps, the more Im convinced following a pattern of the dice for that time period, might be wise.
    A speck of dirt on a die could influence it inside the bubble, and that might be worth exploiting, so I might start doing experimenting with different types of betting strategies to see if patterns on these machines hold any merit.(as in laying numbers and betting don't pass on bubble craps)
     
    #34
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  15. SevenOut, May 7, 2014

    SevenOut

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    I do enjoy reading the fresh ideas and well made points after getting no where playing in Las Vegas for five days.

    Liman brought up Bubble Craps and my favorites... the hard 8 and hard 6 being my main money makers on a hot table. Of course I am placing both to cover for the loss of a hardway bet... so that is my insurance when the hard ways are scarce. If I am playing $25 or more on a 6 or 8, I automatically make $10 Hardway wagers. Even though a hard way was thrown, statistically the hardway has the same odds repeating itself on the next roll. Now, three times in a row is getting a bit out of the realm of reality... but after watching Bubble Craps for the first time... I see the pair of over sized dice producing random results. Probably more so than a game with any attempts at Dice Control would, as the results could favor dice totals that I have no wagers. When the hardway hits... I get paid on my Place/Pass Line bet as well. It is this long shot that adds a bit more "excitement to an otherwise routine degenerate repetition of one game system".

    As you all know. Craps is boring when you are losing. More so if you are on a current streak of losses and are ready to abandon your reliable System for some mumbo jumbo read on the back of a toilet stall.

    Now, Superrick is adding some serious thought into some of the comments being made on this Discussion. I have to add something about Craps "Player Experts".

    Player Experts write booklets and books to supplement their butt being kicked at the Craps Table. They and we know that no matter how good a memory, a system, dice massaging or size of bankroll... the Casino will eventually take your past winnings and put them into their bank.

    The Player Expert knows and understands Craps. That is why the expert resists playing Craps. For every big win at the table, there will be many multiples of losses. "Math does not lie" but STATISTICS will steal every chip out of your pocket, your chip rack and wagers on the Craps cloth. Do not confuse the two. It is like having two wives... trouble. Which one is telling you the truth about the other... and when? The Expert Player that writes books to, of course, improve your experience with the one wife... Math... and does a slight of hand and her twin sister... Statistics makes it seem improbable and even impossible not to WIN after reading the book.

    Had I spent a week, a month or five years writing a book about Winning at the Craps Table... I would have to quietly play Craps and not be recognized. The large majority of Expert Players made their money writing for magazines and writing books... even if they have to repeat the same old Crap, over and over in various editions. But, the reading can be entertaining and there is always a bit of truth in each volume. If the word winning is repeated more often than losing... it is a book of fictional characters.
     
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  16. SevenOut, May 7, 2014

    SevenOut

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    I had to quit as there was a change of subject coming and I did not want to ruin the moment.

    Superrick mentioned that the "Age of Expert Craps Dealers" has come to an end....

    I have to agree and disagree... at the same time.

    Playing at Sam's Town Las Vegas for the 10X odds on the $5 minimum table was like having a colonoscopy at a Flea Market. I have never encountered dealers that were so bad, so poorly trained (if at all), lacking any skills as a Craps Dealer... EVER. If you did not watch every pay off and watch the placement of your bet without losing it... you were going to get screwed by these amateurs. When the dealers are that BAD, I spent more time watching my payoffs and what these poor excuses as dealers were doing to and with my wagers. An average player would have been shorted on payoffs and would lose some bets as the dealer could not keep up and give the bet to some one else.

    IF, for any reason other than writing about lousy Craps Dealers and a sleepy eyed Boxman not whipping these pan handlers dressed to look like a Craps Dealer... avoid playing Craps at Sams Town. Sams Town has declined so much in eight years it is sad to report this onto a Craps Forum.

    Now to the Las Vegas Strip. The finest and brightest were handling complicated bets, presses and pay offs with ease. My dealing compared to these dealers would make me a better prospect to Sams Town, but in no way have the experience and mental agility to work with a $300 bankroll player and a $5,000 bankroll player. I watched one female Craps Dealer at the Venetian Casino who had three players with $5,000 to $10,000 in their chip rack and were tossing $500 chips out like I do $5 chips on my hardway bets.

    From watching this one dealer among many, it made my experience as a dealer seem like I was brain dead. These Strip Casinos and the Downtown local player Casino dealers are those that are offered the jobs in Asia to train their dealers and run their tables. Although dealing and running tables takes different skills, some of these dealers could make the transition and be Floorman among a number of Craps Tables with High Stake Bankroll players that want ONLY the BEST dealers available... in the WORLD.

    The language of a Craps Dealer is universal. It is better than English. All Craps Players understand a Craps Dealer.

    I found that Craps Dealers make fewer tips than the Roulette and Black Jack. This is how I understood that the Craps Dealers were brought into tip sharing with ALL table games on their floor. Now, the High Roller dealers, upstairs... they keep their tips for themselves. If anyone can dispute this idea... please jump into the conversation... but this is how I have always understood how the "BEST of the BEST" are rewarded by a Casino.

    Now... that I have exhausted commenting on those several earlier posts, that caught my fleeting attention, I am comfortable in knowing that there are a number of new posts that deserve mention and I will try to get to those. Good posts are scarce on the Craps Forum. Those of us with more experience at the Craps Table than we should have... experienced... can find these jewels that will sink through the floating sewage I have become accustomed of finding when conversation becomes serious. (Those who have Septic Tanks will get the idea better than those who do not.)
     
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  17. superrick, May 8, 2014

    superrick

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    By now we all should know that a casino wouldn't give you a good bet, every bet that you make is negative, now with that said there is one the is sugarcoated, and that is the so-called free odds bet. It's combined with the pass-line bet for very good reason!

    You have to look at what the pass-line bet does when you make it, and that is, it locks you into that bet! It also only pays you even money on your pass-line bet, so you are paying for your so-called free odds with that pass-line bet!


    Have you ever thought why the dealers remind you to make a pass-line bet or to take those so-called free odds? How about when a casino will not let you make a fire bet, all tall small bet, or any other bonus bets without having been a pass-line bet? Do they do that because they want you to win money?

    Once you establish a point on your come out roll, it's all downhill from there, the casinos know that and want to lock you into your bet. I really do get a kick out of what some of these authors say, most will tell you there is only two box numbers that you should ever bet on, and that is the six and the eight! They go on to tell you, that you should never bet the five and nine, because the house odds are to high. Then they take it one step farther and just about call you a fool if you ever bet the four and the ten.

    Then they go on to tell you that you should always take full odds on any pass-line bet, because the house has no advantage on the so-called free odds bet! Did common sense fly out the window, if the 5, 9, 4 and 10 are bets that they didn't want you to make, what changed by taking the so-called free odds?

    The odds of making those points didn't change, the only thing that is different is the fact that by some strange miracle, if the shooter does make the point, you will be paid true odds on your bet!

    Again lets go back to common sense, most shooters never even make the point that was established, even if it was a six or and eight. Players need flexibility to win at craps, you also need the ability to remove the bet once you win it. Did you ever think about what happens every time you win a pass-line bet. As soon as you win that bet, you are put right back into the cycle of trying to establish a new come out point. The game just started over for you, you stand a chance of winning your pass-line bet on the come out rolls and lets not forget losing it.

    Most players will never increase their pass-line bet or their odds, so when there is a winning trend, so they can never get ahead. The short rolls will eat them alive, if they stay to long at the tables. You need the big wins to carry you through all of those losing rolls, by just betting the pass-line and taking odds you will never have the big wins. You will always be in a holding pattern of winning a little and losing a lot!

    The math of the game tells you that you are making bad bets, when you are only looking at the odds of winning your bet, it does not tell you that there is "Variance and Trends" that will allow you to win those bets. Craps is not a one dimension game, there are many dimensions to the game, making bad bets when everybody on the table is rolling them can play a big part in the ability to win.
     
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  18. eddiebones, May 8, 2014

    eddiebones

    eddiebones Member

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    ABSOLUTELY. It is amazing how most players refuse to grasp that fact. Flexibility is Paramount.
     
    #38
  19. Grizzoola, May 8, 2014

    Grizzoola

    Grizzoola Member

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    Superrick sez:

    You have to look at what the pass-line bet does when you make it, and that is, it locks you into that bet! It also only pays you even money on your pass-line bet, so you are paying for your so-called free odds with that pass-line bet!

    Everything you say, Super, is true. But, the amount you're paying is small compared to other bets, except the DP. The problem is that newbies may confuse adding odds with increasing chances of their number hitting, which is false. A player should use odds only in correlation with his money management scheme.

    It really gets back to what you can afford to lose on the table and whether your number(s) hit or not. Some players (you?) like to keep some kind of control of their betting during a hand. Others, me included, like to let the dice set the numbers and let Chance play its inevitable role.

    I don't know your betting/playing style, but I assume you are primarily a Place bettor. You like trying to out-think the dice, as many do.

    I don't know if you're speaking from experience, playing PL w/ odds vs. Place betting. If you have, it would be good to know what that experience was.
     
    #39
  20. superrick, May 8, 2014

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    I see a lot of good shooters that were trained by PARR or GTC, that sometimes lose because their training gets in the way of winning. They were taught to only bet on the 6's and 8's and nothing else, if your betting on the outside box-numbers your committing a sin, so they sat true to whatever school taught them to shoot, and lose by not betting on what they are rolling.

    One of the funniest videos I've ever saw put out by a school, was when they had all their students trying to throw sevens, every time they would hit one they made a big deal out of it. One of their students was throwing hard eights, and the first thing they said was they had to fix what he was doing wrong!

    The reason I was laughing so hard was because the seven is the easiest number to roll and why would you fix something that could make the shooter money! When I'm shooting the first bets I make are the outside numbers, because that is what every one of my shots are set-up to make. But if I making the inside numbers that is where my bets are going to be moved to.

    I don't try to fix something that is working, craps is about avoiding the sevens and getting paid on what you have your chips on! You have to ask yourself, what good am I doing by having chips on numbers that I'm not rolling.

    Just because a book says the six and eight is the best numbers to bet on, doesn't mean that anybody will roll them while your at the table. There are days that there will be more tens then sixes. I love to see don't players betting no 4's and 10's when they are just getting killed by those two numbers, they would make money if they were laying the 6's and 8's, big time! If they are playing the don't and the shooter establishes the six or eight they will not take that point.

    One size does not fit all and you have to remember that when you are playing craps! I know way to many guys that will never switch over to the don't when the table is ice cold. They rather lose their money then switch to the don't. I have to remind them, that they are there to win money and not give it to the casino. It really doesn't matter what side of the table you are playing as long as you are winning.

    There is nothing negative about going with the flow of the game, a competent player will play both sides of the table when a opportunity arises.
     
    #40