I find it very difficult to understand why there are so many Craps Players on this Forum that have no clue, no knowledge and no mathematical understanding of Craps. Some of the current Topics posted for discussion do not even merit responses by experienced Craps players, whom I find are also in a limited supply on this Forum. These Craps Players then go to a Casino and make wagers... It defies logic or rational behavior. I fear that going to other games would be equally disturbing. I will not even browse as it does not matter to me, any more. The Forum has an unusual number of Dice Hustlers, Dice Cheats or Dice Control sponsors, whose skills cannot be readily proven nor would be tolerated at a Casino. If we were at a "friendly home game of Craps" Dice sleight of hand shooters would out number the honest players from what I have read on this Forum. Do not confuse Dice Cheats with Card Cheats... as Card Cheats... CAN use sleight of hand to consistently win any time they want. Dice Control cannot say the same, unless you want to pay to discover that you are a chump. A cheating method loses its value when the number of cheaters increases... The Casino is well aware there are players trying to get the upper hand against the House. But, do it with knowledge, not attempting to control what cannot. I have mentioned a number of times the John Scarne, Scarne on Dice. The illustrations are old. The Dice Control holds, which there are a number described and their history, are old. The stories are old. But, the not so are the mathematics and YOUR being able to benefit from this ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE are the basic facts needed by any and all Craps players. New or experienced. Would it be better that a newbie asks a question without logic or resemblance to a smart Craps player and the answer is explained WHY the thought is in contradiction to the true facts. Then the Craps Forum creates knowledge and not rumor, nor gossip truths that are nonexistent or totally misinterpreted? John Scarne wrote Scarne's New Complete Guide to Gambling which can be purchased, used for under $5.00 on the internet. That will get you a good basic understanding of Casino gambling and the caveats. Skip that volume and study Scarne on Dice. If you read that volume of 434 pages... I would have reason to believe you now have enough knowledge learned to debate and argue points on this Forum. Craps Degenerates are the WORST to deliver the truth. Charlatans abound. I have become totally disgusted. It need not be that this Forum is corrupted by some of the worst advice in print, I say some as there are some on this Forum who do dispense accurate and worthy information. I have yet to encounter ONE reader of Scarne on Dice. It has been in print for over 68 years and counting. Is it that big of a secret? Or... if the truth be known, would some of these pure frauds making numerous posts be exposed... YOU CHOSE. I am packing up my dice, my layout and will sit out further discussions on the Forum, until One, or maybe TWO members that CAN make comments on the Forum having read and have a better understanding of the "real history" of Dice, Hazard, Craps or Ramala Pasa... or throwing a few Astragalus into the dirt from just one book. It is all wrapped up for you in one book to begin your journey. Do not take my word for it, find a copy at the library, read it and then make your comments. Otherwise, I no longer have any reason to participate. Thank you for some of the fair debates we have been able to conduct, but my enthusiasm for fair discussion has been lost over time. I am just so thankful that a pilot and copilot and navigator of a commercial aircraft are required to learn how to fly first and then be hired to be further trained in order to fly safely. These Craps players think this game is for the simple minded with thoughts of hitting it big... when the best minds in this game can only minimize the House Advantage without sleight of hand dice swaps at a friendly game at home. I wanted to learn more about Craps on the Forum, even with my limited expertise. But, never imagined what a mistaken impression I had to following some topics. I even quit following some topics due to the insanity and misuse of facts. Take off the blinders, open your mind and trust common sense. I know it is out there... somewhere.