To reiterate - Personally, I would be cautious about jumping into " taking a class " - This includes - from JPE, SharpShooter, GoldenTouch, CrapsDoctor, TheCrapsDoctor, DiceCoach, TheDiceCoach - Whomever - You are only going to learn a " biased " methodolgy from each and every one of these people / enterprises - Their " bias " needs to be different from the accepted norm in order for them to make a " go " at it - There is more than 1 way to skin a cat - Why limit yourself to 1 individual's philosophy / attitude / way of thinking - When you can learn from a number of different resources - The only reason that I resorted to taking that particular BlackJack course was simply this - After reading all the books - by the big names at the time - they never told me how to count the cards in a professional manner with minimal or close to zero brain power !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe I could be wrong - The only reason being is thus - Frank, Dominic, Pablo, Beau, andall the others - Are hanging around either playing with their dicks or throwing the dice at their establishments wondering how they are going to make the next month's rent Then along comes Joey JO # 132 - problem solved for this month - I am contrary to paying for lessons regarding dice influencing - If you feel that it's beneficial to you and your situation - Then, by all means go for it ! But, always keep this in mind - their attitude/methodology/system is not the only one !!!!!!!!
I had a friend that took classes from Golden Touch and he even had a private lesson with the "Dominator" he said it was a waste of time. He also took a lesson from the Dice Coach and he said that what he received from him that helped the most was dice sets. He turned him on to the super set and has had great result from it. www.practicecrapstable.com
But I can figure out what super sets to use and I didnt have to pay one penny.Its called practice and recording what sets you have the most success with.
Hardeight, What Tal is referring to is what is commonly known as the Straight Six Set - The 6,5, 2 and 1 are all around the faces of the dice are set similar to the HardWay set - 6-6 on top, 5-5 facing, 2-2 to the rear and 1-1 on the bottom - Or any any scenario as long as the dice have those numbers showing in those combinations - This puts the 4 and 3 on axis - This set was named the " Super Set " by Jerry Patterson circa the 1990's when he implemented the Iron Cross betting strategy into his PARR course - The idea of the Iron Cross betting strategy is to Place Bet the 5,6 and 8 for 2X the table amount - And make a Field Bet for 1X the table amount - This gaurantees the player of a 1X table amount win on each and every roll - Except when the shooter 7's out - Then all is lost - As one can readily observe - Beau Parker is still living in the stone age in regards to his betting strategies - He was one of the original PARR members until his break away in the 90's when he formed own school - TheDiceCoach - He is teaching nothing new or different than what he was taught by Jerry Patterson - Take that for what it's worth ! Likewise for he " Dominator " - Dominic Rogerrio - another former PARR student ! I am not certain about Frank Scoblete, however.
http://bj21.com/advantageplay/craps/wongondice.shtml Wong on dice has conducted a couple of studies I will keep looking for them, after reading his articles and book I started getting into dice control
http://www.jetcafe.org/npc/reviews/gambling/wong_on_dice.html Here's another article on Wong On dice, he seems to have done the most investigating on dice control and why I started practicing it.
Tal, Stanford Wong does not know shit about BlackJack although he authoured a book espousing his " Wong half count " - The average BlackJack player can not do the " Hi-Lo" count with any consistancy - Which is a level 1 count - Let alone attempt to count at a level 3 paramater - Yeah baby - 3 levels - +1; -1 ; +1/2 - Obviously you and the majority on this board have no clue as to what I am talking about - No problem - This forum is about craps - Not BlackJack - Correct me if and when I am wrong - But Stanford Wong - and that is not his real name - Is also a PARR client / graduate / associate / whatever one desires to categorize it as - The only thing that I am trying to say here is simply - Give credit to where the credit is due _ The credit belongs to Jerry Patterson - along with Chris Pawlicki ( aka SharpShooter ) - Not these other lurches who plaguerized their hard work and research - Addditionally, any and possibly ALL research that is credited to Stanford Wong is total bullshit !
$nakeEyes wrote Obviously you and the majority on this board have no clue as to what I am talking about - For the record, I know what you are talking about. I'm not that good at it, but I hold my own.
What is " it " - Counting single paramaters or attempting to do the " Wong Halves Count " ? If its the 1st - your search has ended here, Pilgrim - If its the second - I'm not touching that count with a 10 foot pole - Multiple decks - Koko Ita count - Single decks - Revere Point Count - I primarily play multiple decks - 4, 6 and 8 - Therefore I utilize the Koko Ita count ( Green Fountain / Silver Fox Count ) - It works, Baby !
I know this is a mixed subject between people so I will let my reasons for my decision. I plan to take a class while in vegas next month. The reason I am doing this is to display my dice grip theory and ask Dom if he knows of another way to achieve the same outcome or lack there off. I am going to try and concentrate on controlling 1 die instead of 2. I hope to have greater control this way and all I need to do to win is keep one of the dice on its axis and my odds to win improve to around from 83% to 95% to even 98% with a cover bet. And and less interested in who invented it who stole it from who and put it in a book. What I am interested in is having someone who has had the brass tacks to take on the casinos before and his knowledge, skill, and bankroll management was a proven winner for him. I know with my own dice practice and throwing in a few sets here and there I have had a slight advantage over just grabbing the dice and tossing them. I am a edge player and if setting the dice, planting the dice short of the wall, planting 1 die short of the wall even gives me 5 more wins in 1 night then I will do it. And anyone who does not is just gambling.
Personally, I would be be EXTREMELY cautious in regards to " seeking expert opinion " in relation to your new found discovery ! You just might be surprised/shocked when your info is being hawked/sold on their web-site as if it was their own idea !
Greatest 7, I have been playing craps 4 plus years now, and starting doing the "dice setting thing" about 3 plus years ago. Yes you are right this is a mixed group. I can honestly tell you that before my dice setting lessons and practice my results were dismal. Since I began taking lessons (several with the Dice Coach ) my results have been above average, in my opinion. Every trip to Vegas is a first day tuneup with the Coach and I can honestly say the fee always pays for itself. I know everyone here says you can read it in a book or online, etc, but there is a distinct difference when You are practing setting, gripping and tossing the dice and someone is "tweating" your toss. We don't critize Baseball hitting coaches, or the golf pro at the driving range, etc. Therefore why shouldn't a coach, even if he is a dice coach help you out with your toss. I am a firm believer in his abilty to help and I know of at least 30-40 other guys who feel the same as me. We live in a free country and are all entilted to our beliefs. Some will think a dicecoach is great others will not. If you are heading to Vegas I would recommend a session with him as I believe your time with him will be time well spent. Good luck and for sure let us know how it all went. Eagledice
A session with the Dice Coach is well worth the price. After taking his class, I felt prepared and relaxed to shoot to the best of my ability. I am a firm believer that dice influencing is much more mental than physical. The Dice Coach helps you with breathing techniques and how to utilize positive energy to help you shoot in a relaxed state (stay in the zone). Books are a good starting point but personal coaching is a complete different approach. Good luck on the tables!
For what's it's worth- I have taken instruction for a variety of elective courses ! Anyone who thinks he/she can achieve comparable results is definately " penny wise but pound foolish " ? People - I am 63 YOA - I am a US ARMY ( RA ) Veteran of the Viet Nam Conflict - worked on 5th Ave in Manhatten for a year or so in the data Processioning field FWIW - I go back to PCM - AutoCoder - System 3 - Basic Assembly Language - 640K which was and still is the " boot up " scenario for all the current GUI shit ! Everything goes back to the BASICS -640 K - Like it or not - The botttom line is - ": It is what t is " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know and have played with people who have taken dice trainings, Those who follow what they were taught seem to have learned the skill of throwing the dice, the technique of money management, and the ability to not act like a gambler at the table.. The Mad Professor who does not teach appears to make alining from playing craps. I personable believe that the skill of throwing the dice can be taught. A fellow on the GTC web site often says the cost of the course is an investment. Noah I have taken a course several years ago and track my results from my own throws as contrasted with my results from betting on others. My own results are better. Noah
I would love to put my skills up against someone who has taken dice classes to see who is better and are they really worth it?
Wow. Never have so few gotten so much so wrong. And say, if you old timers (and I certainly recognize those handles from years gone by) can't recognize a thread that was set up to get to a certain punchline about attending a GTC seminar and asking Dom a question about . . . well, you figure it out. That was clearly where this thread was headed from the very first post. I particularly like the part where the GTC stooge posted that he'd heard Forever Craps was a great book. Come on, Frank. You can do better than that.
