Growing a bankroll

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by dicepunk, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. dicepunk, Jun 14, 2015

    dicepunk

    dicepunk Member

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    As one's bankroll grows, is it best to keep initial bets static or increase them slowly? Do we increase our session stakes over time as the bankroll grows? Do we increase bets as a percentage of the session stake or as a percentage of the overall bankroll? Once a losing streak appears, do we reduce our initial bets back to the level we originally started? What works for you?
     
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  2. basicstrategy777, Jun 14, 2015

    basicstrategy777

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    Bet up when you are winning.....bet down when you are losing.

    777
     
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  3. KokomoJoe4, Jun 14, 2015

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Good questions all, and of course the correct answers depend on the individual.

    My answers:

    1. After some back and forth, I have decided it best to always play with the same $300 bankroll. Used to fluctuate between $200-500 depending on recent success or lack of it.

    2. No increase in sessions stake with increased winnings.

    3. With as aggressive a progression as I can justify using, bets are always increasing with winners. This is a per session thing for me. Overall bankroll has nothing to do with it. Since I play a good bit, session bankroll is always on the smaller side, and there will be a lot of future sessions.

    4. One of the smartest things I have ever done with my play, while in the later stages of a nice progression, is to leave the table with the first loser. There is no doubt in my mind that this long-standing habit is the major reason for my overall standing with my play. In this sense it's a loss, not a losing streak. When using smaller bets before progressing, a loser means go back to minimum bet.
     
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  4. Dave G Ct, Jun 14, 2015

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    My take
    If I have a great hand I will shoot once more. If I lose - it' s over. If I win then I will reward myself with another hand. Bets are the same. Now if I have 3 or so winning trips then I will up my starting bets 1 unit.
     
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  5. Onautopilot, Jun 14, 2015

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    I just go wherever luck takes me! Sometimes I cash in a nice stack of chips, sometimes I go home broke!

    You never know what the next roll is going to be, so trying to out guess the little "cubes" by regressing, progressing, is all a matter of luck....nothing more! You can extend your table time, or go home early, but lady luck will determine if you take some money with you when you leave!
     
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  6. betwthelines, Jun 15, 2015

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    Excellent questions, 'punk...and as koko said it will always depend upon the individual, who if smart (IMO) will always have a goal or goals or objectives and will manage the bankroll progression or regression in accordance with those goals...of course these goals might vary even from session to session depending upon utility, etc, although for the Tough Craps player, they do not vary-----ever...

    ...at the risk of my all-too-common logorrhea i am going to go into some detail about the Tough Craps bet progressions --plural: both the bets AND the bankroll are progressed (relentlessly)...

    ...as we've alluded, one might have different objectives than the Tough Craps player and so one does not need to employ these specific, yes arbitrary, strategies, nor even progress his bets for that matter in order to be considered as playing "tough" but since there are only two, known craps players in the world that play tough exclusively and since the 2nd is not only lost in the mists but quite likely totally oblivious to even being included in the distinction (bloke might be dead for all i know...lol), we can call this the Tough Craps Bet Strategy...

    The Tough Craps player's goal is to win HUGE...Any win is better than a loss, make no mistake, but small wins are not the objective...This means pressing your luck...This means losing most of the time...The thrill is the Big Win...no, no,no,no,no,no...i mean HUGE...there is no win limit...

    When the Tough Craps player talks about a "bet", he means any bet that has no house advantage...now there are some very limited availability zero vig bets like free buys on the 4 and 10 or the possibly now even non-existent free field bet but for most practical cases we are talking about ODDS. The Tough Craps player deems the required line bets, pass and come, as simply "vigorish". Vig amounts are kept to the absolute minimum needed to get your odds bet and are never progressed other than to meet that criteria...

    as the bankroll progresses, you can extrapolate the higher base amounts but i will use $5 here (add $1 where applicable for the 5 & 9) as the base bet for the progression:

    $5-->$15-->$15-->$25-->$40-->$50-->$75-->$100-->$150-->$200-->$300-->$400-->$500-->$750-->$1000-->$1500-->$2000-->$3000-->$4000-->$5000-->$7500-->$10000-->$15000 -->...

    the bet is progressed on every win--without exception--ever (indeed while i use the term "progression", except for bet #3 the bet is actually pressed on every win)...each bet is a completely independent PROGRESSION...pass and come being absolutely identical, the play is completely shooter neutral, a progressing, winning come bet simply moves to the pass line on the so-called "7 out"...

    the bankroll is $500...truth is, the first base bet is actually $10 (-->$30-->$30-->$50 etc as above) not $5 since when even or ahead we start off optimistically...i only used $5 above because it is far and away the most common of course, being ahead not so much...so we start at $10 and when ahead $0 to $99 limit the come outs to 3 (1p, 2c), $100 to $199 ahead four, $200 to $299 ahead five come outs...

    ...the immediate goal is to get $300 ahead (at the end of a "hand" which, as you could guess from the foregoing, might encompass several shooters)...at this fortuitous point two things come into play: first, the bets go to a very aggressive $20-->$60-->$60-->$100-->etc (3 points when at $300 to $499...4 from $500-$699...up to 5 points $700 to $899)...secondly you become eligible to put some money back in your pocket, the Tough Craps equivalent of "quitting while you are ahead" (but of course you don't really quit quit! dont be silly...)...if you are really very lucky it will be hours in fact before you actually "drag" any winnings however...

    ......as you might also surmise from the above, the bankroll and winnings are reckoned in $100 increments and these dollar amounts are actionable only at the end of a hand...a hand is over when your bets have either all gone "out" or it might include one "new" come bet that has yet to win [other than the come "7 out"], yet to progress anywhere)

    ...let's say, for example, you end a hand ahead $302...then after the next hand (betting 20-->60-->etc) you end up and you're ahead only $299...well of course in reality you have only lost $3 but you have to draw the line somewhere and for this purpose you have fallen below the $300 threshold and so you "pretend" it is in the $200 range (and thus your next bet would drop to the $10 base)...But Here's The Kicker: you have now lost $100 after reaching that happy, initial +300 goal and so you "drag" $100 and put it in your pocket (actually i just move 4 greens or maybe a black to a different part of the rail) to be used for groceries or the light bill or maybe the next bankroll (right, right: "it's all one big session and then you die")...

    ...you drag $100 for every $100 you lose...so now in this example you "pretend" that your current status is +$100 to $199 and make your bets accordingly...this might not sound like much but as your luck increases, the bankroll continues to progress: at +$900, for example, the base bet is $30...at +$1800 it's $50...at +$3300 it's $100-->$300-->etc...at +$6300 it's $150...the Tough Craps player carries in his wallet a chart that goes all the way up to +$40,800 where the base bet is $1000...so you might be up +$2852 and then lose down to +$2496 after the next hand, a loss pf $400 by this reckoning so you pocket $400 and then bet "as if" you are up $2096...

    ...in this way you continue to pocket winnings as you regress your bets while the dice stay cool...but should they warm up a bit you might still be at a pretty nice level ---compared to your $5 base at any rate---to take advantage of that (in our +$2096 example your progression would still be at a hefty $50-->$150-->$150-->$250-->etc, not bad for a starting bankroll of $500...)...

    as you can tell, i struggle to briefly and succinctly describe the play...if anyone has even read this far and have questions or are still interested i would suggest getting a li...er...i mean i would refer you to the Tough Craps thread of a few months ago on this forum...tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
     
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