GROUP / TEAM PLAY IN ATLANTIC CITY

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by $nakeEye$, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Nov 22, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Well I hope the lifetime ban doesn't get me hahaha but as I have posted before I can make money at craps without even touching the dice consistantly by laying the dipshit at the table who thinks he is controlling the dice...hahaha

    It's all good when I get home in Apr I make take 6 months off and do nothing but work on on shot and situational betting.
     
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  2. kaysirtap, Nov 22, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    Southern Comfort,

    You never responded to this question in reply #182 regarding dice control and eliminating the intended purpose of the back wall:

    There seems to be some disagreement here about how to influence the dice, if it is even possible at all. In a previous post, you implied that the dice would only rotate backward (pitch) after tapping the back wall, but made no mention of the possibility of yawing or rolling (rotating to the side). However, you did say you were using a "perfect overhand shot" as an example, so perhaps this could be true... but that begs the question, how often do you expect a person to be able to execute a throw, not by chance, so that the dice bounce off the table and are both struck along their centerline so that they carom in the manner you suggest? If you could answer these questions, I think it would be helpful to anyone coming across this thread who is researching the possibility of influencing the dice - specifically, if they should be hitting the back wall at all.

    I'm curious G7, why does laying these people allow you to make money at craps?
     
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  3. epenak, Nov 22, 2011

    epenak

    epenak Member

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    Actually, it is quite simple to pick up the dice with this hold, as the fingers and the thumb form a triangle. I will incorporate this into my training regimen to train those fingers to not be so forceful. When I toss with this grip, I still see the end axis faces showing up. When I reconstruct the fall of the dice, one or both die are tumbling one time, of axis. i.e. when I set the 5-2 top, 3-4 face, I'll see the 1 or 6 (or both) in my results. It may be too early to see the intended result, however. Thanks for your thoughtful instruction.
     
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  4. $nakeEye$, Nov 22, 2011

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Sooner or later -

    And more often than not - sooner -

    Everybody 7's out with the dice -

    By betting the darkside - either " Laying " against the numbers as opposed to " Placing " the numbers -

    You are essentially gauranteed an eventual win -

    You can also bet DC and " lay " the odds against the number just thrown -

    Personally, I am giving the " Dark Side " method of play serious consineration -

    Particularly, with all the Shake, Rattle and Rollers that I encounter on a habitual basis in AC and at the PA casinos that I frequent !
     
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  5. kaysirtap, Nov 22, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    Well, I would say that placing a number is as guaranteed as laying a number. Yes, a lay bet has better chances of winning than a place bet on any given roll, but as you increase the number of rolls, place bets are eventually going to win as well. Same argument goes for Don't Pass and Don't Come.

    The reason for my question was because it was implied by G7 (and now you, $nakeEye$) that "random rollers", or "the dipshit at the table who thinks he is controlling the dice" as G7 puts it, has a higher likelihood of a seven-out than would otherwise occur by chance.

    So my question to G7 is, why does laying these people allow you to make money at craps? After answering that, can you tell me if it is just people who think they can control the dice, or any random-style shooter?

    And my question to you $nakeEye$ is, do you believe that random rollers have a higher likelihood of a seven-out than would otherwise occur by chance? If not, how would you determine which way to bet for all of the different "Shake, Rattle and Rollers that [you] encounter on a habitual basis in AC and at the PA casinos that [you] frequent"?
     
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  6. epenak, Nov 22, 2011

    epenak

    epenak Member

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    Ah, but a faulty calculation is still a calculation! And that is all the regulation requires of you, the shooter.
     
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  7. The Midnight Skulker, Nov 23, 2011

    The Midnight Skulker

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    However, after a shooter is given repeated warnings to recalculate and has failed to demonstrate an effort to do so I should think an assumption that the shooter is intentionally employing a throw calculated to cause the dice not to strike the wall.
     
    #207
  8. $nakeEye$, Nov 23, 2011

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    kaysirtap -

    About 3 months after I have that figured out - I'll fly this and the other forums' members on my personal jet to my private island somewhere in the South Pacific !

    Till then - its just watch their hands - tells a lot about people - do they set - do they have a refined or repeatable throw - or do they just pick 'em up and throw with total disregard as to what is going to occur next !

    I have seen jamokes have phenonanol rolls and I have seen DI's have shitty rolls -

    You win some - you lose some -

    The secret is - trying to figure out who's the winner and who's the loser !

    Seems the people I bet on are the losers and the people that I don't bet are the winners !

    Now - that - sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  9. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Nov 23, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    "Well, I would say that placing a number is as guaranteed as laying a number. Yes, a lay bet has better chances of winning than a place bet on any given roll, but as you increase the number of rolls, place bets are eventually going to win as well. Same argument goes for Don’t Pass and Don’t Come."

    This is untrue. a lay bet has a higher winning percentage over the night than a place bet does for 2 reasons. first there are more 7 combos that loose than inside number combos that will win for you. Second is for a place bet you have to win and take down or win twice to go up one unit. So most of the time you will break even because your place bet on one number will hit and then its a 7 out. So over time you will have to hit and take down or you are going to have a loosing streak.


    "The reason for my question was because it was implied by G7 (and now you, $nakeEye$) that “random rollers”, or “the dipshit at the table who thinks he is controlling the dice” as G7 puts it, has a higher likelihood of a seven-out than would otherwise occur by chance."

    Yes over time a random shooter will 7 out more than a person who is trying to influence the dice will. Not hitting the back wall greatly improves the shooters odds and i believe puts them back into the favor of the shooter from the house. This is why you will not be allowed to do this again and again. So a random person shooting compared to a dice settor with exp over time should 7 out more by far. If you put them side by side and each had 20 turns to shoot I feel the dice settor comes out ahead 13-7. Not based on any real math just my table experience in real time.
    So yes I find the worst person I feel at the table and lay them. Money making time is around 10pm. And the guy wants his wife to throw the dice and have a good time. Cha Ching. find the best person odds wise to make you money and bet it. While everyone else at the table is betting on every random shooter and just donking there chips off to the house you should be studying and writing down notes until you get good at it in your head. Find the mark and ride him right through his chip stack.


    "So my question to G7 is, why does laying these people allow you to make money at craps? After answering that, can you tell me if it is just people who think they can control the dice, or any random-style shooter?"

    It all comes down to your perception. If a guy is setting the dice on the table and not caring how they land he is a "chicken feeder" he just thinks he is influencing the dice. I lay him. If a dice settor is "flirting" with the backwall and one die is hitting or both are just missing. I take my lay bet down. Just because someone thinks he is influencing the dice does not change my bet if i think this person is going to make me money. Also it depends on the point number as well. If its a point 4 or 10 I dont care who you are I will lay the dominator against the 4 and 10 all day and night. Wait until you feel the odds are in your favor and get your money in good. Do not try and bet every roll and every player at the table. Low risk calculated bets until you are playing with house money and then you can open it up a little.
     
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  10. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Nov 23, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    #210
  11. kaysirtap, Nov 23, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    I think you misunderstood what I wrote. By saying that "as you increase the number of rolls, Place bets are eventually going to win as well", I did NOT mean that Place bets will eventually make you an overall winner, just that the bets themselves will eventually win*.

    * - Uh oh, what did I say here? NO, I did not say that some rolls of the dice are "due" if they have not shown up after some time. What I said was that the likelihood of rolling different Place bet numbers increases with the number of rolls. For example, we all know that a Aces and 12 each have 1/36 chances of rolling, but we have all seen them show up... it might just not be on the next roll. The longer that you stay at the table, the more likely it is that you will see it.
    I understand what you are saying about profits from Place bets here, but why is this not the case for Lay bets? When you lay, you will also have to take it down after it hits in order to show a profit. Obviously Lay bets normally come down after a seven-out, but rebooking them at any other time (common on the come-out roll) is just the same as keeping a Place bet up. And when Lay bets lose, you will need more hits on them to show a profit than you would on a Place bet.

    This did not directly answer my question, as I wanted to know if you think any type of shooters has a higher likelihood of a seven-out than would otherwise occur by chance.
    ...because you believe that they are truly random?
    How exactly do you calculate risk? Do you factor in the payouts when considering this risk? Do you believe that a Lay bet on the 4 or 10 has lower risk than laying the 6 or 8?
     
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  12. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Nov 26, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    I answered some of the questions but it appears the reply was deleted for some reason. Kirsap I will send my reply to you in a pm.
     
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  13. $nakeEye$, Nov 26, 2011

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Same thing happened to me - there were a few posts that were dropped -

    Apparently, Jacob was having technical difficulties !
     
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  14. kaysirtap, Nov 26, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    The admin had mentioned that he accidentally deleted a senior member's account, and I'm guessing that the only way to restore this was to revert to a backup of the forum before the account was deleted. This backup was apparently made sometime early on the 23rd.
     
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  15. epenak, Nov 26, 2011

    epenak

    epenak Member

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    Where are these admin messages posted?
     
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  16. kaysirtap, Nov 26, 2011

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    Well... they're gone, obviously... along with all of the other data. I don't remember where exactly he mentioned the account he deleted, but I know $nakeEye$ had posted a reply to it. Don't you think it's about time we start a new thread, since this is no longer about the AC gathering?
     
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  17. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Nov 27, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Actually with the wealth of information in this thread it should be turned into a sticky at the top of the threads.
     
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Reminder: This is the Dice Influencing section.