Gaming Commission Comedy of Errors …

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Harley, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. Harley, Jun 26, 2015

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    I was recently informed that my name was mentioned in an Ohio State Gaming Commission memorandum,even though I have never been to Ohio so naturally my interest peaked …. And after making a few phone calls I was able to narrow the source down and make contact with the person that had obtained some documents under the Open Records Act.

    There was a Memorandum from the Assistant General Counsel of the Ohio Casino Control Commission (OCCC) that referenced my name and cited my website (Link) … below are some of those papers, with information and names of the innocent redacted.

    These real documents read like a bad Hollywood script of "Comedy of Errors" - see how many technical snafus made by the supposedly independent Casino Control Commission you can find ... (after reviewing these documents and having more than 8 hours of interviews with the craps player involved, my comments have been added in red and emphasis highlighted in light red, the original documents included yellow highlighting - Please note you will have to go to the Link for the original article in order to see 2 different highlightings as this message board does not allow highlighting)

    …. Is this a perfunctory investigation by amateurs in a manner that is incomplete, incompetent, lacking of analytical abilities, unprofessional and can only be described as an inadequate, negligent performance of government administrative, fiduciary and enforcement responsibilities or maybe is just an orchestrated cover-up of the actual facts of unbalanced dice in live casino play. This dice inspection is being supervised and directed by an attorney (Assistant General Counsel) so either is possible -- you decide.


    Some dates have been highlighted to let you decide what took so long to occur behind closed doors – Also note that the original case was marked CLOSED in the field at the Casino after reviewing the dice, surveillance video, talking to the Boxman that tested the dice and the Gaming Agent made a recommendation that the case be closed. HOWEVER, this case was REVERSED at the Headquarters Ohio Casino Control Commission:

    1. Without even interviewing the Boxman or patron and
    2. Ignoring the overwhelming surveillance video and
    3. Ignoring the biased results of the dice on the table and THEN
    4. Ignoring the actions of the Casino to remove the dice from play AND
    5. NEVER “officially” testing the evidence themselves with a dice balancing caliper
    6. [​IMG] AND
    7. Without "officially" meeting with the lead field Agent. Even though this case took over 52 days to settle, the headquarters division conveniently never "officially" met with the original on-site Gaming Agent that wrote the Initial Report and did the initial investigation and recommended this case Closed in this following Initial Report:
     
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  2. Harley, Jun 26, 2015

    Harley

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    OCCC ACISS Case Management System: Initial Report Report Inquiry (XX-1093)

    Initial Report Report: XX-1093


    Primary Information

    Report Number: XX-1093
    Case Number: XX-1093
    Case Status: CLOSED
    Case Lead LEO: Chapman, Kyle
    Type Of Report: Initial Report
    Report Date/Time: 09/13/20XX 0:00
    Description: Player Dispute
    Reporting LEO: Chapman, Kyle (Cincinnati / Ohio Casino Control Commission)
    Occurred From: 09/13/20XXXX 6:15
    Occurred To: 09/13/20xx 9:10
    Source Of Info: XXXX
    Source Reliability: XXXX
    Dissemination: SYSTEM WIDE
    Approved By: Koeppe, Stu (Cincinnati / Ohio Casino Control Commission)
    Approved Date/Time: XXXX
    Approval Status: Approved
    Expense Status: Not Posted

    Synopsis

    On 09-13-
    XXXX (wrong year is typed in this Report) a patron playing at craps Table 306 disputed that the dice in play were out of balance and requested them to be changed. A new set was brought in and calibrated/checked on the table in front of the patron. He claimed the new set was out of balance and asked for another set. (To clarify, the Casino Boxman determined that all these sticks of dice were unbalanced by properly using the caliper, not the patron.) The third set was also found to be out of balance (by the Casino Boxman). The fourth checked ok and were introduced to the game. The patron wanted to file a dispute form with the OCCC. (The patron did not want to file a complaint until after the Shift Manager refused to retest the dice on the hard surface of the chip bank cover or the podium in the pit, and then refused to reimburse the patron for his losses due to unbalanced dice being used by the casino in violation of state law as noted below. The patron was aware that the inspection is required to be conducted on a hard surface [ Note: see patron's filed complaint; and, this was the subsequent reason for dismissing the tests conducted at the table by the boxman, which actually did not distort the conclusion of the tests performed on the felt layout of the table.] ).


    Related Addresses

    Address Relationship

    1000 Broadway Street Cincinnati, Ohio 45202,

    Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OHIO, 45202 OCCURRED


    Charges

    Offense Type Offense Attempted/Committed Statute UCR Class

    1. Regulatory - Patron Complaint / Dispute NOT APPLICABLE REG UCR

    Related Subjects

    Name Relationship Type Sex Race Age DOB

    XXXX xxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xxx

    Related Property

    Property Class Property Type Description Prop Status

    1. EVIDENCE Miscellaneous - Sleeve of 5 red dice from table 306 - EVIDENCE/SEIZED

    (Note – the 2 other sleeves listed from this Initial Report’s Synopsis above are missing from EVIDENCE – why - as Ohio Administrative Code (OAC), highlighted below clearly indicates they should be removed from play.

    Where is the casino's discrepancy report, as later noted by Mr. Martin, the Ohio Director of Regulatory Compliance in an email ?? This requirement was even highlighted in yellow by the Patron in the OAC he attached to his Complaint. )


    2. LOST US Currency $XXXX USD lost at craps table 306 ---

    Narrative

    On XXXX, at Craps Table 306, XXXX was playing the game for about an hour according to statements, when he asked the boxman (supervising dealer) of the table to test the dice being used in play. His reasoning for the request was that certain combinations of the die were showing up more frequently than others and this made him suspect that the dice were not 'balanced.'

    Testing of the dice began at the table, on the table felt around 8:55 hours. Via XXXX XXXX's statement and surveillance footage, the dice that were in play at the time were taken off the table due to faults (the Casino Boxman determined that all these sticks of dice were unbalanced by using the caliper). Two more sleeves of die (dice) were also tested by the Boxman and both of those, as well were deemed to have faults (determined that all these sticks of dice were unbalanced by properly using the balancing caliper) and were taken out of the game.

    The fourth sleeve tested ok and were introduced to the game. During the testing OCCC agents were requested. Contact was made around 1000 hours. XXXX alleged the dice he was using and other players were 'unbalanced.' Those dice were seized by agents as evidence for a regulatory matter. He went on to state the other sleeves tested after were 'unbalanced' as well. XXXX was given a dispute form and was advised he could bring the form back to us or mail a copy to Columbus. He stated he would, and requested that his $XXXX he lost on the game be returned for the dice being out of compliance (attached is the casino CMS record indicating a lost of $XXXX on XXXX).

    He was advised to speak with the Casino about that matter and that the OCCC could not make that determination right then and there.

    As related above, the Casino did find the disputed dice to be out-of-balance, as well as two new sleeves of dice, therefore I recommend this case be Closed, Transferred to Regulatory Compliance.

    Attached are: Casino CMS records of play and loss, OCCC Dispute form, OHLEG printout. Also, video of the complainant's play has been flagged.

    Attachments

    Description Size Mime Type Record Origination

    1. OHLEG (ohleg.pdf) 237 KB application/pdf XXXX
    2. Dispute Form (disputeform.pdf) 12,660 KB application/pdf XXXX
    3. Casino CMS Record for XXXX (cmsrecord.pdf) 18 KB application/pdf XXXX
    View Image Report

    Record Status Information

    Record Origination Operator: Chapman, Kyle (Cincinnati / Ohio Casino Control Commission)
    Record Origination Date:
    XXXX
    Last Update Operator: Koeppe, Stu (Cincinnati / Ohio Casino Control Commission)
    Last Update Date:
    XXXX

    ACISS software licensed by Ohio Casino Control Commission
    msiba XXXXXXXX

    _______________________________________

    The full article with documents, colored commentary and highlighting can be found here --> Link
     
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  3. Harley, Jun 28, 2015

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    from the article - Below is an email from Ohio Gaming Commission to Colorado Gaming Commission investigating the craps player that filed an unbalanced dice claim in Ohio !!
    ________________________________________________________

    From: Martin, Patrick D
    Sent: XXXX PM
    To: [email protected]
    Cc: Siba, Michelle
    Subject: Mr. XXXX: dice issues

    Contacts: Brian Mestas

    Brian:

    Have you ever heard of a patron named XXXXXXXX? He is asking questions about dice balancing in our Ohio casinos, and claimed that Colorado rejects 80% of dice from the manufacturer.

    Thanks, and I hope all is well,

    Patrick Martin

    Director of Regulatory Compliance
    Ohio Casino Control Commission
    614-387-5860
    ________________________________________________________
     
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  4. Harley, Jul 2, 2015

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    Maybe the Gaming Commission problems are not restricted to Ohio. Separately, but related - the following is from a Report to the Mississippi Legislature Gaming Regulation in Mississippi: A Progress Report The Mississippi Gaming Commission (MGC) done by a Joint Legislative Committee on Performance Evaluation and Expenditure Review (PEER)

    Enforcement
    • The MGC’s Enforcement Division still lacks a formal inspection program that would include a plan for conducting unannounced inspections of casino operations a pre-determined number of times to ensure adequate monitoring of the fair play of casino games.

    • MGC does not provide adequate training for enforcement agents regarding MGC’s regulations, table games, and electronic gaming devices and equipment. Thus MGC does not ensure that enforcement agents have the knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary to ensure that gaming is conducted honestly and competitively.
    MGC’s Theory of Inspections
    Since the agency’s inception, the MGC’s enforcement field operations have been driven primarily by industry complaints rather than by an aggressive inspection program. The theory has been that casinos are primarily responsible for detecting and reporting incidents and potential violations to the MGC. According to MGC staff, an underlying assumption of this theory is that the casinos are owned by legitimate corporate businesses that are not going to risk losing their gaming licenses through unethical, unfair, or illegal play of the game practices.​

    A formal inspection program for casino regulation would include an inspection of every facet of each casino’s operations a pre-determined number of times, comprehensive and standardized checklists to document evaluations of casino games and operations, and twenty-four hour coverage, seven days a week, on a “no notice” basis in all MGC districts. Such a program would aggressively monitor all casino operations without an assumption that licensees are trustworthy and would report all potential violations of state laws or regulations to the MGC.

    MGC still does not have a formal inspection program in place for monitoring casino games.

    The MGC has criteria for table game approval and modifications (e. g., a new game should not exceed the estimated hold percentage of games already approved in Mississippi, games should be compatible with the public policy of the state). However, MGC has not written these procedures for this process. PEER contends that without written criteria, MGC cannot assure that table games are being conducted in an honest and competitive manner. Without sufficient policies governing the approval or modification of table games, the commission cannot be assured that table games are being approved in a consistent manner and played consistently on a statewide basis. Because the standard is discretionary, there is no objectivity in the table game approval and modification process. Without this objectivity, the MGC cannot ensure fair and equitable treatment of casino patrons or operators.
    http://www.peer.state.ms.us/reports/rpt522.pdf
     
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  5. tabletop123, Jul 2, 2015

    tabletop123

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    WOW!!!! In the state of MS, Play at your own Risk. It is up to the Casino to Report any "Incidents". What a Friggin Joke! I'm sure that the Casinos will report any & all Customer Complaints concerning Gaming. Yeah, Right. LOL.
     
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  6. Harley, Aug 6, 2015

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    The Ohio State Gaming Commission and TDVegas are both trying to find out more about me personally - coincidence o_O
    [​IMG]
    From: Siba, Michelle
    Sent: September 25, 20XXXX, XXXX
    To: Martin, Patrick D; Donahue, Craig; Dempsey, Teresa; Flora, Carrie; Chapman, Kyle
    Subject: FW: XXXX incident report

    … Here is a message board (http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/ ) that includes a participant named “Harley.” In one post, Harley links to a “Balancing Dice XXXX Guidelines” (http://littlejoecraps.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=209) that looks eerily similar to the suggestions in his packet that XXXX sent to us. You’ll notice that the author of the post is XXXX.

    Finally, Harley also links to a blog (http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/p/biased-dice.html ) that details the exchange between his group and Nevada, specifically Jim Edwards. Harley and his group were not happy with the results from Jim.

    M
     
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  7. Harley, Jan 25, 2016

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    Per Pressit's Request:
     
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  8. Pressit, Jan 26, 2016

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    Harley you the man. I knew if anyone knew you would know. Thanks much for all you have done educating us on the inner workings of the casinos and the various gambling commissions operate, or don't operate when comes to protecting the gambling publication interest.
     
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  9. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    Boy, that's a legit complaint....LOL
    Isn't that what its all about?
    If your playing craps don't you need certain combinations of the dice to show up more frequently than others to have winners and losers?
     
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  10. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    When I was a casino manager if a boxman miked, squared, or balanced the dice on a patron request.
    One thing for sure that boxman would be looking for a job. And maybe a floorman, pit boss and someone in the surveillance room would be updating their resume as well.

    Buts that's just me I'm old school.
     
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  11. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    After 30 yrs this complaint has come to me many times.

    Of course I would not say these things in front of my customers. Id take the guy aside and say "sorry you feel that way but maybe you should consider somewhere else to play"

    Then if he demanded I mike the dice "not going to happen, here's the number for the GCB make sure you give them my card"

    If it continued beyond that I'd have them escorted out
     
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  12. KokomoJoe4, Jan 26, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

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    7uwin,

    I assume you would consider this as a disruption of a profitable game of chance. Since this is a game played by those who would pick up their things and leave with any such stoppage of play, it is in your managerial interest to keep things running smoothly.

    If according to state gaming laws such analysis is required, there would be better times to make such measurements and record such data.

    Is this something the casinos do? I would think that this responsibility would be on the manufacturer primarily, although it would be smart for the casino to do checks at the appropriate time.
     
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  13. 7uwin

    7uwin Member

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    Exactly, you never stop the game.
    The last thing you want your good customers to hear is some guy bitching that the dice are crooked.
    Word of mouth can destroy a business.
    The implications of a casino running crooked games are enormous not to mention the potential liability issues.

    Could you imagine on a hot roll some don't player starts yelling "crooked dice"
    And you stop the game to mike the dice...LOL....You would lose 15 good players who could take their winnings out the door and possibly never come back because you pissed them off
     
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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  14. TDVegas, Jan 26, 2016

    TDVegas

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    As I stated in previous posts, I'll almost guarantee this is what is happening with Harley in the casino and the reason he and his cohorts are getting booted or are persona non grata at casinos. The last thing a casino wants is some guy bitching about bias dice at the table.

    Great points, 7uwin.

    These guys have NO other choice than to blame the dice when they are getting their @ss kicked at the table. It can't be their rolling (they are too good..LOL). It can't be bad luck (their rolling skill has eliminated luck). It HAS to be the dice. LOL.

    I think we can put this BS to bed.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  15. eagleeye2, Jan 26, 2016

    eagleeye2

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    7uwin,

    The BEST Way (for the customer) is to somehow minimize the # of 7's that show up!

    The BEST Way (for the Casino) is to somehow maximize the # of 7's that show up!

    Yes, that battle goes on & on!

    eagleeye2
     
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  16. Harley, Jan 26, 2016

    Harley

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    7uwin - I agree, the casino should have never stopped the game. However, in all the Ohio gaming commission documents I have attached, not once do I recall them addressing that issue !!

    Hence, the title of this thread.

    Proper procedures is for the patron to bypass the casino personnel completely if he suspects bad dice - and that is why TDVegas is so wrong again with his "guaranteed" rants. Patron should notify the State Gaming Commission immediately - in this case in Ohio, there are 2 resident Gaming agents on each property that has video access.

    In Las Vegas, the Gaming Commission will respond within 30 minutes of your call. Just like human suspects, the dice are presumed guilty until proven innocent. The Agent will advice the Floor Manager and give them approximately 15 minutes to prepare a new stick of dice for a smooth transition and exchange of dice. No stoppage of play is necessary with every dice complaint.

    The suspected dice will be taken into evidence at that time.
     
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  17. eagleeye2, Jan 26, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    TDV, What, you choose to totally ignore Harley's Post as follows???

    Below is an email from Ohio Gaming Commission to Colorado Gaming Commission investigating the craps player that filed an unbalanced dice claim in Ohio !! ________________________________________________________

    From: Martin, Patrick D
    Sent: XXXX PM
    To: [email protected]
    Cc: Siba, Michelle
    Subject: Mr. XXXX: dice issues

    Contacts: Brian Mestas

    Brian:

    Have you ever heard of a patron named XXXXXXXX? He is asking questions about dice balancing in our Ohio casinos, and claimed that Colorado rejects 80% of dice from the manufacturer.

    Thanks, and I hope all is well,

    Patrick Martin

    Director of Regulatory Compliance
    Ohio Casino Control Commission
    614-387-5860


    Wow, 80% of DICE REJECTED FOR BALANCE, in Colorado, where they are RERQUIRERD to check for BALANCE on DICE before entering them into play!

    eagleeye2
     
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  18. TDVegas, Jan 26, 2016

    TDVegas

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    He "claims" 80% get rejected.....

    LOL..Real strong evidence there.

    Eagleye. You've been exposed as a farce. Continuing to side with Harley only casts your shadow onto him, making him look just as bad.
     
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  19. hartzehn22, Jan 26, 2016

    hartzehn22

    hartzehn22 Member

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    7uwin- In your gaming career, did you ever use a balance caliper on dice after you perceived the die being unbalanced? Just curious. Why would you have them escorted out? Is it because you knew the die might be unbalanced or you just didn't want to deal with an unhappy customer and thought he was just full of SH$$.

     
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  20. KokomoJoe4, Jan 26, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

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    Hartzehn, see the obvious listed above. THE GAME MUST GO ON.
    [6][4], [2][2], [3][1], [5][5]. Winner winner chicken dinner.
     
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