Flat Bet on the Pass Line Come Out Roll...

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by SevenOut, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. SevenOut, Nov 20, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I was speaking with another Craps Player about the flat bet and wagering on the Pass Line on the Come Out Roll.

    Many of the mathematic players on their computers.... say it is a great bet. Others, not so enthused about this 'traditional wager' for Pass Line Players.

    My opinion is this:

    - If you want to shoot, put a flat bet onto the Pass Line. In my case... if you want to shoot from the Don't Pass, craps custom says not to... but I am not attached to custom when I am shooting with my wagers at risk. I have been the shooter playing the Don't Pass and Don't Come... by myself at a table.

    - Otherwise, tables with less than 5X Odds... and not shooting... Place Bet on the line on the Pass Line at 4X Odds, already built into the wager. You will be paid as a Place Bet if point is made. That is reasonable and not a bad wager.

    - Odds of 5X or higher... making the flat minimum wager IS better, IF you play 5X or higher Odds on Point.

    I have seen players with the minimum Pass Line wager because the 7 and 11 pay even money on the Come Out. That is the only 'real incentive' that I can think having any merit. Then it becomes a Contract Bet until the session is decided.

    Is there a 'smart or smarter way'? Only if it fits your System of Play.

    Playing the Don't Pass... uses the OPPOSITE strategy of the Pass player. But then again... that is another Thread and not the intent of this Thread.

    Any comments? If not... you are obviously easily convinced.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  2. Onautopilot, Nov 20, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    I play a pass, and come bet strategy with no odds. I parlay any winner once....about a 30% chance of a winner on the come out, with about a 30% chance to win the parlay on the next come out. If I don't win the parlay on the come out roll, I still have a reduced chance of winning it by making the point.

    I have a built in trigger for increasing my flat bets based on percent of bankroll, both negative and positive.

    By not taking odds, I am missing the chance for a fair bet, but I am also reducing potential volatility. There are times I wish I would have taken the odds, but offset by the times I am glad I did not take them. I would also have to have a much larger bankroll to support my negative progression if I used odds.

    I have a modest win goal compared to bankroll, but also leave the upside open if the winning bets continue when I have reached that goal.

    With the negative progressive style of play, and a relative bankroll, my winning session percentage has an expectation of 90+%. So far, so good. :)
     
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  3. SevenOut, Nov 20, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    OAP.... and interesting and another effective method in my opinion.

    One Dealer Procedure for an empty table and one shooter.

    "If the shooter is the only customer at the table, excluding spectators, he/she will not be required to make a Pass or Don't Pass wager. If this occurs, there will be no point numbers. The Player will simply roll the dice, winning or losing on whichever wagers are made. When a second Player comes to the game, the shooter must then make a Pass or Don't Pass wager in order to be able to continue rolling the dice. The next roll will be the Come Out Roll."

    I would expect that most tables will not familiar with this option for shooters and force a Pass or Dont' Pass minimum flat wager. This is Harrah's 1994 procedure manual for Missouri Riverboats.
     
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  4. Onautopilot, Nov 20, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    The no line bet exception for a single shooter makes sense, but I have never seen that.
     
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  5. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Ive been in AC over the years where there was only 2, 3 players, none making pass or don't pass bets, the dealers would hold the dice until someone put up a line bet to roll the dice.
     
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  6. SevenOut, Nov 20, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    *******
    That is because the Boxman was not going to bend the 'rules'.

    Two or Sixteen people standing around a Craps Table, in my opinion, without a Pass or Don't Pass wager... are spectators, or as some of us on this Forum, refer to as Dice Influencers.

    Of course, I would find this offensive and one could substitute... Black Jack Players.
     
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  7. KokomoJoe4, Nov 20, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

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    Unlike those place bettors who play neither, whether you play Pass or DP, you are financially affected by the come out roll, approximately 33% of which will have an immediate result.

    Since it's gambling, do with these winners and losers as you wish. I think it is smart play to let both Pass and DP come out winners ride at least one time - more than once if you are playing with higher odds.

    If you're currently playing 1x or 2x odds, one parlay is enough to have its successful completion make you as much or nearly as much as an odds backed line winner. Nothing wrong with that.

    If you are currently playing with 5x odds or more, I prefer to let a winning parlay ride again. If this hits, either by way of another come out winner ( 3 in a row) or by sitting naked on the line until hitting, you have yourself a 7:1 score.

    Playing right, all a successful parlay takes is two naturals in a row or one plus a comeback winner on the point established with your now double sized bet, half of which came from the bank.

    Playing wrong, it's either successive 2 and/or 3 come out winners, or one followed by seven out of the established point.

    To me, parlays are a more practical way to see consistent winners than something in the middle of the table.
     
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  8. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I play 30 or 60 each 6 and 8 on occasion , for no reason other than that's what I want to do, and never make a pass line bet unless Im the only one and they want a pass line bet.
     
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  9. SevenOut, Nov 21, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Liman... Harrah's North Kansas City will differ to your Casino of choice in their Dealer's manual.

    To make it 100% Official:

    ASK the end dealer. If he does not know, he will ASK the Boxman. If he does not know, he will as the Pit Boss. If he does not know... go to a Casino that does not hire dumb shits.
     
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  10. HornHighBLEVE, Nov 22, 2016

    HornHighBLEVE

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    At turning stone after playing only the place 6&8 I was informed to bet the pass line when I ended up being the only player at the table....this after passing the dice earlier.

    It wasn't a showstopper for me but I just don't want to play the 4 or 10, that is why I place bet. Maybe the casinos rational for a mandatory contract bet has something to do with turning the bets off or pulling them down...l dunno.
     
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  11. driglaz, Nov 22, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    Why not just, place the 6 & 8 and make them working on the come out, this would give you more theoretical ways to win with the a decent house edge?
     
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  12. SevenOut, Nov 22, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    *******

    Works for me. You could argue with the table that you have money at risk. Just because it is a Come Out roll does not affect the dice outcome. You have no better nor worse chance of winning or losing your Place Bets.

    The dealers will also have more respect for a Player who knows... the system!
     
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  13. basicstrategy777, Nov 22, 2016

    basicstrategy777

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    Nothing says you have to bet the PL if you are the shooter. You could bet the DPL.

    Then establish the point.

    Then place the 6/8.

    Then pick up your DPL.

    Who knows what happens next.

    777
     
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  14. driglaz, Nov 22, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    you can take the 6 and 8 working on come-out roll, with no pass line bet.

    depending how much money you risk on other shooters, the cost for pass line and single odds, at at $10.00 table is the same cost to place 2 numbers. you are still in the game without the pass-line and odds money at risk.

    doing it working style on the come out roll is just a different way to play.
     
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  15. Onautopilot, Nov 22, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    The only thing wrong with that, is picking up your don't pass bet after a point is established.:confused:
     
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  16. basicstrategy777, Nov 23, 2016

    basicstrategy777

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    OAP........you CAN pick up your DPL bet after the point is established......you get an incomplete.

    777
     
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  17. basicstrategy777, Nov 23, 2016

    basicstrategy777

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    The shooter MUST be on the line.

    777
     
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  18. driglaz, Nov 23, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    This is for betting on others.....saves some money but keeps you in the game with some action and risk.
     
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  19. Onautopilot, Nov 23, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    But why would anyone do that? Pick up a bet that you have the advantage on? Naturally the casino will let you pick it up.
     
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  20. driglaz, Nov 23, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    Imagine this, you put a $10.00 chip on the don't pass line, and the shooter throws the dice. A 10 lands. and you think to yourself- great, 2 ways to get a 10 - odds are in my favor. the shooter continues to shoot, the following series of numbers

    2-1 for a 3
    2-6 for an 8
    2-4 for a 6
    5-4 for a 9
    5-3 for a 8
    2-2 for a hard 4 little joe in the house - flip them over you would have lost.
    2-6 for another 8
    2-3 for a 5
    5-4 for a 9
    5-3 for another 8
    5-4 for another 9
    5-1 for another 6

    now your thinking to yourself, wow there are numbers being rolled. and the shooter continues

    5-6 for a 11
    2-6 for an 8
    2-4 for a 6
    5-4 for a 9
    5-3 for a 8
    2-2 for a hard 4 little joe in the house - flip them over you would have lost.
    2-6 for another 8
    2-3 for a 5
    5-4 for a 9
    5-3 for another 8
    5-4 for another 9
    5-1 for another 6

    now your wondering, should i pull my bet. will a 10 roll.

    it is human nature to watch numbers roll, and think that 10 will be next. odds and human nature do not always work together.


    so you pull your bet. and next roll is a 5-2

    you lose. (and did not lose money or make money)

    everyone else killed it.

    welcome to craps.
     
    #20
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016