Do you suspect the casino cheating at the craps table?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Hardeight, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. Hardeight, Jan 30, 2011

    Hardeight

    Hardeight Member

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    I DO!!!!I think there are magnets in that table that can alter the dice or something.I am becoming an observer on how the dice move at certain angles and see alot of curviing of the dice.

    The reason why I am saying this it seems like all the good shooters are sevening out a lot quicker including myself.I sevened out on the first roll 4 out of 6 times lately and know somethings shady.Then I see the beginners hitting three numbers?The one dude didnt know which direction to throw the dice but he hits a 10 and 4 and another number?Thats unheard of.I am an up and coming dice controller and I still have trouble hitting 4s and 10s.
     
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  2. Southern-Comfort, Jan 31, 2011

    Southern-Comfort

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    Whereas I would not doubt for a second that a corporation would try to cheat the average guy, I would be very suprised to find cheating devices on the tables.
    If you suspect they are using them, I would recommend that you send your complaint to the state's gaming commission to have them check it out.
    That said, its a very common thing for dice influencers to go through periods where they start hitting an over abundance of seven. When something subtly changes in your posture, swing, grip, alignment, it changes the whole routine with the dice. You might want to start making notes on paper when you are getting good rolls. Include such mundane things as the position of your feet. Then, when things start going awry, go bacjk to those notes and see if you can find something you are doing then that doesn't match up.
    Personally, I see the sudden rash of sevens as a sign that you do have influence. Your influencing the dice to hit more sevens. Now just to correct that and adjust it back to where you want it (with notes so you don;t have to figure it out at the table again someday).
     
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  3. Darkness, Jan 31, 2011

    Darkness

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    Ok, paranoid people...

    "Legit" Casinos would be stupid to actually cheat the game nowadays - they would stand to lose a lot more than if they just let the game run on it's own. The business penalties are just too great. Besides, it's a negative expectation game in favor of the casinos. The payouts are never with true odds so the casino can make money on every bet. The craps pit is usually the highest money maker in a casino next to the slots - why do they need to cheat a game that they already make a lot of money on legitimately?

    Besides, if there was a bias at the table or with the dice, that bias is available to both the casino and the shooter/bettor. Hey, if they're gonna have a "big red" biased table, I know I could make a ton of money....a biased game is actually good.

    If you are a "true" DI - you should be doing like the other pro's and focus on your Darkside play with the all seven set during the point cycle and a 2V or cross6 or straight6 during the come-out while shooting at a $25 or higher table - you're shooting to "throw" the game and collect. By playing at a higher minimum table, you'll probably be the only shooter which means you'll keep getting the dice back to conjure "Big Red" again. If you're good at keeping the table cold, you probably won't have too many people who will want to join your game and slow it down.
     
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  4. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

    Hardeight Member

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    ok naive person....you just cant answer how is it that the regular good shooters are sevening out so much and all these beginners are doing so well?Yesterday I was at a table with two other good shooting regulars these guys are "chuckers" I call them they stack the dice and chuck them in the air.The most rolls we had was 5 and we combined for 5 seven outs on the first roll?You cant be so stupid?We all are slumping at the same time?In another post I said this guy hit for 15,000 last week and I think that has something to do with it.They can alter the game at certain times and make it "seem" random.Of course any smart casino isnt going to cheat ALL THE TIME but once in a while?....YES

    They can make a beginner look like a pro how do you think they get them to come back?If A watcher sees this they say "well if they can do it so can I"They dont need the old regular shooters when they can easily bring up a new batch and repeat the cycle.
     
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  5. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    Like I said before I have so many setups and I practice an hour a day.Of cousre at the casino the obstacles alter my style sometimes but no way I should be sevening out on the first roll.They keep track of the good shooters who do the most damage and I am one of them.
     
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  6. DeMango, Jan 31, 2011

    DeMango

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    This thread amazes me. Good reply Darkness!
     
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  7. Darkness, Jan 31, 2011

    Darkness

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    Hmm...Hardeight - hehe

    Well, for such a pro as yourself - who realizes that the casinos know who you are and that you are "good", I'm surprised you haven't done like the rest of the "pros" and do "hit n' runs" with a large casino rotation scheduled to hit the beginning or end of each shift. This keeps your exposure to any particular craps crew to a minimum - like a 5 minute or half-hour session with any one craps crew shift per month. Doing something like this wouldn't allow them to know who you are. Don't tell me you're also handing them a players card too - gee, that'd be stupid, since now they can turn on the "magnet" every time they see your face.

    If you figured out how the casinos work, then how come you don't do this already? If you go through the trouble of practicing an hour each day, I imagine you'd also be careful to not let the casinos track you and know who you are.

    If you're a regular in Vegas, and someone were smart and resourceful, it might be cool for that person to then ask the craps crews around town about the local DI, then show up when you are shooting and play darkside - sounds like that person could make alot of money. Maybe your friends who play with you during the week should do that - play darkside, then you can split the winnings ;)
     
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  8. lucky4688, Jan 31, 2011

    lucky4688

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    As far as the casinos cheating..I think its ridiculous. What what i do believe is that the casinos are just as supersticious as the players around the table. I've noticed the stick dump the dice bowl over extremely fast when the dice go off the table and not give a shooter a decent amount of time to say "same dice". If a roll is warming up and numbers are poppin its not uncommon for them to do that even if the shooter says same dice. I cant even count the amount of times i've been told "oh i didn't hear you, speak up". Most of the casinos i throw dice at have 20 minute rotations between dealers. I've noticed short shifts and ridiculous game stoppages for no reason. Dice are hot, so why wait for 20 minutes, they want to get in a new stick change now when the puck is still "on". Anything to disrupt the rythm and throw off the good vibes at the table. Every classy craps player knows that when you are buying in that its good table etiquette to wait until the game is over, or the puck is in the "off" position. Well, next time you are in the middle of a good roll and winning money, watch how hard the dealer push players that are lingering around behind everyone else. They are just itching to wedge someone in and throw down a mid roll buy in. This one is less common, but it happens more than you would think. Once again, anything to disrupt a groove or piss of the shooter.

    With that being said, the casinos employ incredable arrogant and stupid people. So just when you think a dealer is looking out for you at the table. They aren't! Many of times i've had to stop table play and dispute something a dealer did with my money. This i believe to be also be the casino's ploy at times. Obviously honest mistakes happen as well. Im not a total conspiracy theorist. However, we all know when a hot roll gets stopped and stupid arguments happen that the dreaded "7" seems to be the next couple of rolls.

    Just last night, i was in the middle of a money making roll... I had a 10 dollar put bet on a "5" with 140 in odds....The payout would be 220. 210 for the odds and 10 for the flat....when the "5" was thrown i told her (the dealer) to press my odds to 250. So doing simple math, i know that im pressing 110 and getting 110...She actually handed me 120. So i wound up giving back 10 dollars. However, i noticed that she only pressed my odds to 225. She did the same exact thing to my buddy next to me with the same bet and press. So of course i had to stop table play and tell them they shorted me 25 dollars. I must have argued for 5 minutes and the box and dealer were talking circles and didnt make any sense. So i said fuck it, i dropped 25 on the layout so that i could at least make my odds proper. 225 isnt even proper and the dealer didnt get that. They went to the tapes and said that the casino was right and i wasn't. Sure as shit, because i had to dispute that casino mistake the shooter sevened out three tosses later. After coloring up and not tipping a dollar on a 300 dollar win. I went to the pit boss and explained the situation "again"! He stated that isn't what the dealers told him to investigate and that he would call upstairs again. So after 15 minutes of the casino watching the tape. He came back and told me that the dealer cut out the payout wrong and shorted us 25 dollars. So we walked back to the table, excepted our 25 dollar correction and then tossed them to the box and told them to drop the money for the dealers. It was principle, not because i desperately needed 25 dollars. So thats my take on some of the bullshit to watch out for at the casinos..
     
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  9. Mr7-11, Jan 31, 2011

    Mr7-11

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    As the name implies, the law of large numbers applies to a large sample size.
     
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  10. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    First off Im not a "pro" but have talent.Problem is the crews work all shifts and theres only one casino in Philly.I do like your idea though..if they see my face they wouldnt need my card anyway so they don't everget it.
     
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  11. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    Just to add I saw that guy who made 15,000 the next day he sevened out on his second roll they MADE SURE HE WILL NEVER REPEAT THAT.

    But I am seeing stories in this thread on all the ways a casino can CHEAT even if its not my magnet theory.All I can do is observe more at the casino to close this case.
     
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  12. idoc

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    LMAO! :D
     
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  13. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    Wow LMAO in such big font...its obvious you don't have a brain to make up a theory.Its all good IDIOT they laughed at the Wright Brothers and Magellan too and guess who was LMAO in the end?Without the retarded font of course.
     
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  14. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    I think you are the disgruntled dealer that I didnt tip last night
     
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  15. Darkness, Jan 31, 2011

    Darkness

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    I'm just giving you a hard time Hardeight - I realize now that you're just a rookie - you've been at this for only 2 months afterall. I've been at this for over 15 years. It makes me laugh how you talk about having the game "figured-out". Not bad for two months worth of playing. It took me several years to just develop the right betting discipline and mentality...its tough staying away from the sucker bets...

    Here's some advice to help you enjoy the game and your journey forward in DI...
    Just keep it real, man. It sounds like you're a "red-chipper" hitting the Parx and Sugarhouse in Philly. You're on the "very low-end" of anybody's radar playing at that level...nobody really cares about you, so don't sweat it. You are not any kind of threat to the casinos, what so ever.

    Don't worry about the DI tossing for now - Develop a betting discipline first - set a win goal and lost limit for your session and stick to it - do not chase a loss or a win. It's OK to leave a hot table and it's definitely good to leave at table when you hit your loss limit.

    When you do this as long as I have, you realize that winning is not like "Lightning in a Bottle" and you gotta "milk it" because it's so rare. Winning happens often and in cycles. "Winning" is defined and depended upon how you set your win goal.

    Get this down, then you can add the DI stuff later. Look at it this way, even if you do have the talent and you become a "real threat" to the casinos with your excellent toss, you'll only sabotage your own efforts because you'll give the money back because of bad betting habits and discipline.

    And another piece of advice - don't be too hard on yourself with your DI tossing - 2 months isn't long enough to be an actual expert at DI or to even know if you have talent. Give it a year - this will be enough time for you to actually experience a crippling "draw down" based on your own tossing...that's when reality will hit you and you can re-evaluate whether you want to continue on with your supposed skill.

    Remember - keep it real, dude - you're still new at this...
     
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  16. Southern-Comfort, Jan 31, 2011

    Southern-Comfort

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    http://www.pgcb.state.pa.us/?p=113
    Thats the web address to file a complaint against the casino with the PA Gaming Commission. If you are so sure they are chaeting, do everybody a favor and report them.
     
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  17. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    Thank very sound honest advice..I will always remember it.
     
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  18. Hardeight, Jan 31, 2011

    Hardeight

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    Look I am suspicious of them cheating but I don't have enough to file a complaint..I need much more evidence.But they did lose money last month so yeah its not beneath them to cheat a little
     
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  19. cwaters973, Feb 1, 2011

    cwaters973

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    Do you think all the Casinos are cheating? Have you seen the same results at Parx or Harrahs Chester or AC?
     
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  20. cwaters973, Feb 1, 2011

    cwaters973

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    15K is nothing to them. In the first week that the Sugarhouse was open they made $5million. The amount of money they make in a month will far surpass losing $15k. Do they like to lose even a $1 nope but they don't or won't bat an eye if they lose $15k.
     
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