# Dice mechanics

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Sketch, Apr 5, 2019.

1. eagleeye2, Apr 8, 2019

### eagleeye2 Member

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Mssthis1,

""In that case"" as you state, you sound a bit shocked, that brings into question your ability to WIN consistantly!

eagleeye2

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2. Mssthis1, Apr 8, 2019

### Mssthis1 Member

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From what I've seen most people call luck, "winning consistently" If you only play a few times a year on full tables you will never have enough rolls to tell whether it was luck or skill.

I average 4 hours of play a week and still have months long periods where there's more losing sessions than winning sessions.

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3. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 8, 2019

### The Midnight Skulker Member

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It just struck me that this debate over SRR -- what it means, how it's calculated, and in particular whether it is a single statistic or should be applied to individual subcategories -- is a case of a tree obscuring our view of the forest. Who here plays solely for the satisfaction of being admired for being a DI? Isn't the goal to win?

Craps is not a judged event; players are paid on the final result of a roll with no degree of difficulty multiplier or style points bonus. Hence, if we're going to try to generate some statistic that indicates if we're "doing it right" I suggest something like a WLRR: Winning to Losing Roll Ratio.

Obviously this ratio will be strategy dependent.
• On Pass/Come a player must win 50% of the decisions to break even, a GBRR of 0.5. Adding odds would reduce that somewhat.
• On Place 6|8 a player must win 46.2% of the decisions to come out (just barely) ahead, a GBRR of .462.
• Etc.
What this approach (hopefully) does is provide a standard against which the actual results can be compared to determine the player's expectation. SRR does not provide that since it does not take into account when the sevens occur and what effect non-sevens have on a player's bets.

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4. eagleeye2, Apr 8, 2019

### eagleeye2 Member

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Midnight,

Bottom Line: The KEY to winning @ CRAPS, However, is to shoot in a way that Reduces the Statistical # & Frequency of (7's) that is occurring.

Thus the KEY is PRACTICE & Development of A specific Set, Hold, Throw & Landing Zone that ""Reduces the Statistical # & Frequency of (7's), Period....

eagleeye2

#64
5. Dave G Ct, Apr 8, 2019

### Dave G Ct Member

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Ever see a person using the 3-V set who is obviously not skilled & dice bouncing all over the place yet this DI using the same set and has a decent shot but he just has a very short roll.
Explanation
Yes if you are horrible and both die off axos you always end up with a 6 or 8.
DI may be a just a little off and ends husband hand.

#65
6. Dave G Ct, Apr 8, 2019

### Dave G Ct Member

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Ends his hand- hate the software on this phone always changing my words!!

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7. DeMango, Apr 8, 2019

### DeMango Member

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Thanks for that post sir. Compared to most of the wanna be DI’s here, you are an effen genius!

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8. twodicebilly, Apr 8, 2019

### twodicebilly Member

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Dave

There are a great deal of things that can go wrong when a DI throws, and everything
matters. Not so with guys that dont have a practiced shot.. there nothing can
go wrong.

You look at the hundreds and hundreds of guys that have been trained over the years
to throw the on axis shot.....how many have you seen do it real well over the past
year? the past 2 years ? the past 5 years ???

You dont, see them because most people can not make it work. They are trained to try
find some advantage at home, accept that some computer programs says your damn
good and they go to the casino and then what?????

The casino table is higher than their own table, there are chips all over, the dice are
different, the table is longer or bouncier ….and they still think they have an advantage!!!!!

TDB

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9. James Hall, Apr 8, 2019

### James Hall Member

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How many wanna be DIs are here???
I know you have talked about , "So Called DIs" but wanna be DIs????
It somebody , wanna be , they should learn ta be.

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10. JL Vegas, Apr 8, 2019

### JL Vegas Member

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It embarrassing to admit, but since the late 1990’s I have willingly spent well over \$6,000 on different dice seminars and related subject matter. PARR, Little Joe, Dr. Z, numerous Jerry Patterson productions, on axis, off axis, a gazillion dice set, but within the last few years I have come to the realization all I ever needed was a HW set, remembering which numbers are on axis, making small adjustments to my grip, my landing zone, and what part of the pyramid I want my dice to hit; straight on, or at a slight angl, and I changed my position to SR, SL 1 o r 2, with 1 being my prefer position. Sure I still 7 out, and PSO, but I do so less frequently.

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11. von duck, Apr 8, 2019

### von duck Member

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So what did you do, to your "husbands hand" Dave.

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12. James Hall, Apr 8, 2019

### James Hall Member

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Do you feel what you got from the classes , seminars was of value??

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13. von duck, Apr 8, 2019

### von duck Member

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It's never a total loss, one way or the other, you should learn "something".

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14. JL Vegas, Apr 8, 2019

### JL Vegas Member

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Good question. Not a total waste, but certainly not worth \$6k. Although I have never taken his course, I hear the Dice Coach offers a pretty good course of instruction. The Dice Coach use to have female instructor, Deborah “Soft Touch” Garcia, who was the best for PARR. Off-Axis, the best is Little Joe. Two totally different styles of tossing the bones.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not down on Dice schools, I am down on what I did, which kept hopping around looking for the holy grail. My advise is to find a school that will work with you after the school is over, and either buy, preferably build yourself a Craps table, or a good representation of one. Should not cost you more than \$1000, if you buy one the cost will be north of \$4k.

#74
Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
15. James Hall, Apr 8, 2019

### James Hall Member

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How many classes did they offer in their training programs

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16. James Hall, Apr 8, 2019

### James Hall Member

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I live about 10 miles from a manufacturer that builds
craps tables , black jack , poker roulette all that stuff
and they sell their craps tables , custom built for \$3,000.

much quicker and easier and of course practicing consistently
helps a bunch.

#76
17. JL Vegas, Apr 9, 2019

### JL Vegas Member

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Usually it is their signature course of instruction, spread out over a weekend. Depending on the number of students equates to how much individual instruction you’ll receive. Dice Coach and another guy, Tony Leo, have classes in their homes. Tony Leo offers you free checkup if you are in Vegas.

#77
18. twodicebilly, Apr 9, 2019

### twodicebilly Member

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JL

There is nothing wrong with taking several classes because your
going to learn something in all of them, even if many times it
to learn what not to do.

The addition of the LJ shot for me made sense because I can many
times now be more effective from SR1 than I was from SL1, so I have
many more options if I get to a table and there is a guy at one place or
the other, and the LJ shot is very effective from table end on a 12 foot table
or a hard 14 table like the one at Silverton, Avi in Laughlin, or the Scarlet Pearl in
Biloxi.

Are you headed for vegas in October for the LJ gettogether??
TDb

#78
19. TDVegas, Apr 9, 2019

### TDVegas Member

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Based on his name, among other posts...I’m going to go out on a twig here and say he probably lives in Vegas.

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20. JL Vegas, Apr 9, 2019

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