Dice Influencing: Right or Wrong System outcome players?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by SevenOut, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. SevenOut, Oct 19, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Someone who follows the DI Thread discussions will know better than myself. Maybe one or more of my questions have been resolved on this or any other Forum?

    - Do DI's prefer the Don't Pass system plan or the Pass System plan?
    - Do DI Schools charge more or less for one plan or the other? If so, WHY?
    - Can a DI get confused as to outcome preferences is they are 'switch hitters'?
    - Can ANY Craps Players comprehend the different of the two... or more strategies at the same time?
    - Do short explanations make one more competent of a poster?

    Can a bystander watching a Craps Session determine quickly, by direct observation, that statistically 75% or more active players are better off watching the action, than participating?

    As a casual bystander, can an experienced Craps Player point out players whose play reacts TO current Dice Outcomes and vary their wagers to compensate... from the Craps Degenerates who blame biased dice, American Indian Chinese made dice, magnetic spots, padding beneath a Craps Layout, etc., etc., and of course, etc.?

    These are basic, simple Craps questions illustrating that the DI Player, manipulation of a pair of dice outcomes, may not even match the Craps System of Play at the table. Who is the judge? The chip rack or the observer?

    Weasel Craps Promoters on this Forum need not comment. Short comments indicate a lack of knowledge and commitment to respond honestly.

    A Winner at a Craps Table one evening, can easily be a Loser the next evening. Same Game Plan... wrong outcomes. DI or not a DI?

    Had this same player went to the opposite side of the Craps Table (Pass or Don't Pass), would this player had a WIN one evening and a WIN the following evening?

    Once you begin to think and consider these questions, you will understand that Craps and DI are not designed to complement one another. Neither DI or Dice Setter can predict the next outcome favoring their System of Play 49% or more of the time. If they could, the Casino would close the table and install Ping Pong Tables.
     
    #1
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  2. SevenOut, Oct 24, 2016

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Obviously there are NO Dice Influencers on this Forum that actually PLAY at a Casino Craps Table.

    Anyone can WIN in Mom's basement on her 14 foot Craps Table. It costs nothing to chip the edges of some razor edged .750" dice at home. Wager amounts of chips as if you have stacks of $25 and $100 chips at home, but when at the Casino... $5 and maybe a $25 chip tossed in for excitement.

    There are some things you depend on working....

    - Your vehicle starting in the morning.
    - The door to your work... is unlocked and open for business.
    - The toilets work at home and at work.
    - Your savings has not been devalued to the worth of one candy bar, overnight.

    Lots of shit can go wrong. But no DI is going to jump into a discussion of what they would do if they could actually toss all of the 'inside numbers', over and over. But ignore that the SEVEN is also among the inside numbers.

    Look... if I were writing articles about catching big fish in Salt Water or some three pounders while fly fishing in Wyoming... I had better know something about fishing.

    Well, Fishing and Craps Systems... are the same. If was tossing 4's and 10's, why the hell would I be playing the Full Monte System that wants 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9's? Hey... the SEVEN is also part of that game, if you like to admit it, or not.

    Common Sense would require the DI to shoot Right or Wrong sides of Craps. The problem is, everyone wants to be a Right Bettor and WIN. Well, February 31st is also your birthday, as well. When bucking the Point Seven Out... as a Right Bettor, maybe DI's should be working on Wrong Betting Systems and make DI pay.
     
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  3. DeMango, Oct 24, 2016

    DeMango

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    I have often wondered why don't systems work and pass systems don't. The problem with don't systems is that when you win your point, you lose the dice.
     
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  4. TDVegas, Oct 24, 2016

    TDVegas

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    The first thing a DI has to know...does he actually have an advantage? Otherwise you're just goofing around with toss. Long term SRR can be very, very suspect IMO---especially if it includes numbers on a table you're not actually playing on.

    You are only on the table for a short time...does that long term SRR apply for this short session? I doubt most, if not all, have any clue whether it will work for that session. Flying blind, IMO.

    Just from a math and calculation perspective....

    I've yet to hear any of them chime in on the bohunk challenge odds...not to actually take the challenge, mind you...but is it a good bet or not? None of them know, which leads me down another path of are they capable in figuring out their own advantage? Truly figuring it out---pencil, paper, calculator.

    There's no harm in trying to be a DI. No harm in mechanical tossing. No harm in trying to be consistent. Beneficial?...I think there are numerous reasons to be suspect about those claims.
     
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  5. DeMango, Oct 24, 2016

    DeMango

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    There is no substitute for actually charting your throws and following the trend of those throws. A few trends can be assessed at the table immediately such as ratio of PFH's to DP's. But there is no substitute for imputing your results into a computer. Knowledge is power, despite the ignoramus from CT.

    Again the Bohunkajunk challenge is garbage.
     
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  6. TDVegas, Oct 24, 2016

    TDVegas

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    If I thought the craps table could lead me to putting bread on the table and a lease payment for a Porsche Cayman...I would be the first in line to participate in DI. It just ain't happening. Not for me or anyone..as far as craps goes.

    I can play low house edge bets as a randie and have a chance at net ahead or close to break even (which is essentially what you guys are doing anyway). Why on earth would I invest countless EXTRA hours of practice, lessons, money, pencil and paper logging, waiting for empty tables, only betting when I toss and other time consuming DI nonsense to get the same? I'd rather invest that time on something useful.

    The BC challenge is very telling...from a confidence point of view.
    None of them really have that confidence. Plus, there are many forms to this challenge. 4's, 5's, less 7's, more 7's. It's not simply an extra 6 challenge.

    Garbage? Au contraire. Your $100 is getting you $1,000. You won't find that payoff on a relatively easy accomplishment for a DI.

    If true and there was some "science" behind your logic...aka "Do A, see B, bet C, hit C"...you would all be very wealthy gamblers. You're not wealthy gamblers. All bets "work" sometimes. If you can truly distinguish a bias point (trend, tilt)...have plenty of black and purple chips for the ready.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016

  7. Liman

    Liman Member

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    if di really worked well enough to support oneself, Id never see a di at a 5 or 10 dollar table anymore, meaning never betting red chips.
     
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  8. DeMango, Oct 24, 2016

    DeMango

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    When the original challenge was put out and you contrarians lost tens of thousands of dollars, it changed the dice game and not for the good. So yes, Bohunkajunk is garbage.
     
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  9. DeMango, Oct 24, 2016

    DeMango

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    You are right about a $5 table. No real full time DI would play there because you would be there costing him money. If you don't understand why, look up the old AC report on rolls per hour at a dice table.
     
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  10. DeMango, Oct 24, 2016

    DeMango

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    Amazing how quick this thread went to can/can't bullshit. It's all about pass or don't.
     
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  11. HornHiYo, Oct 24, 2016

    HornHiYo

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    What is the original challenge?
     
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  12. TDVegas, Oct 24, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Hell...I've even said no money. Just go do. Accomplish.

    It's a decent example of influence...you are putting together a string of sets incorporating an extra 6 or 8. It's not going to solve anything...buts it the best example of DI I can think of over several hundred rolls.

    Better than anything others have offered where they throw out 15 combinations of various numbers and tell me "this is how I demo DI".

    I'm sitting there going wtf?....I could do that chucking like the monkey. The bohunk isolates a number.
     
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  13. DeMango, Oct 24, 2016

    DeMango

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    Stanford Wong and Little Joe Green vs Wizard of Odds and other so called AP's.
     
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  14. SevenOut, Oct 25, 2016

    SevenOut

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    How often do people, who use the drive up at a Fast Food service, open their sack to make sure it is exactly what was ordered? Maybe... 50% or fewer?

    Same with those with intimate knowledge of DI. Those with experience never open 'their DI sack' and tell bystanders what is to be discovered after you leave the drive up window of DI.

    Having references given from other sources for additional information is 'advertising' the product. With or without a coupon before or after purchase.

    If any of us go to an 'anti gambling mathematical site'.... you are already considered a fool and other members pile on... why would anyone be that stupid to play agains such lousy odds. These people must lay around eating high calorie cookies and watch soap operas all day. Rather living a dull existence never taking a risk for reward.

    At least Albert Einstein worked out the equations before there were instruments to PROVE his point with later experiments. All of this is recorded and can be tested by myself, or anyone else, who has a couple of million dollars of equipment in their basement.

    Craps also have their leaders and followers. It is just when the equations and theory are worked out on the chalk board... some information is either lacking or tossed in from somewhere else without explanation. As if Dice Influencing already is a proven fact, beyond dispute. We must accept all of the previous build up to this point, or everything collapses. BDI and ADI. Before Dice Influencing and After Dice Influencing.

    I am more curious about BDI, as ADI is just missing something for a complete understanding.

    As a geologist, the discovery that Dinosaurs disappeared at the end of the Cretaceous, never to be seen again. Later to discover that BIRDS are related to Dinosaurs, creating a new understanding and throwing out old understandings immediately.

    Well. DI is not proven beyond dispute for myself and many other layman. Is this another 'End of the Cretaceous', or not....? Has anything escaped this boundary, or not? Where is it, if so?

    I am not a DI Union member. I do not even admit to knowing much about Craps other than the common mathematics behind the table game options.

    Constantly on this Forum... disputes arrive that make big assumptions, and bypass proof that can be tested on any flat surface with a pair of fairly well produced cubes with spots. If Einstein could 'predict' thirty, fifty years before some of his 'theories' could be TESTED... when will Dice Influencing get to this point. Today. Next year. Never?

    IF anything is to be accepted as FACT, it obvously can NOT be like Jello and take whatever shape or form the possessor requires to make it... fit their conclusions.

    Well, squishy jello facts will not do the job. When percentages of deviation are given... this is squishy jello, as we are not taking Polls... but trying to produce evidence any of us can practice at home.

    If sunlight can be broken into its Basic Colors within a Rainbow... which a double Rainbow is in reverse... DI Pass and Don't Pass play and systems can also be broken into finer detail than previously given on these Forums.

    So... where is this magic sword stuck in a block of granite? My ears are ringing, but no answer seems to be coming.
     
    #14
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
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  15. $nakeEye$, Oct 26, 2016

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    SO WHAT !

    You LOSE the dice - BUT - You WIN the money, Honey ! ;)

    THEN - here we go again - Round and Round and Round, Again ! :)

    $...eE..$
     
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  16. SevenOut, Oct 27, 2016

    SevenOut

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    A DI would wager Pass Line wagers when shooting themselves.

    A DI would wager Don't Pass Line wagers when others are shooting.

    Why would a DI want to throw three or four numbers, without repeating any (to lose) in the process of throwing a Seven Out to win even money on Flat Wagers through the Don't Pass and Don't Come? A real waste of talent. Almost like putting money in the bank account with negative interest rates.

    If there were not a Bar two or Bar twelve or Bar three in the Don'ts... it becomes clearer.

    Most theoretical posts never look into the details. Details are cumbersome and any mistakes will be dragged through the process of discovery by everyone looking for an error in judgment.

    Assumptions are just opinions and some are worse than others. Make your posts short and the poster does not have to expose any material that could be considered poor judgement or need to think in advance if it makes any sense.
     
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  17. DeMango, Oct 27, 2016

    DeMango

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    So what? Only at an empty table is it "so what" Then you have to wait your turn with the dice. There is a reason of course. The casino does NOT want you shooting from the don't!
     
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  18. wonko33, Oct 27, 2016

    wonko33

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    If I knew I could make money by rolling more 7s I would make the effort to find empty tables, play at night , play the higher limit ones, whatever I need to do. You would get noticed more though I think.

    I wonder what the average Craps player would do if they came up to a table with only player (playing Darkside) and the player would tell them, go darkside I roll a lot of 7s. I would put a don't bet down and see what happens, it's not like the odds are worse or anything anyway.
     
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  19. SevenOut, Oct 27, 2016

    SevenOut

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    I have shot the Don't Pass on an empty table. It was a $3 minimum flat bet.

    I played the Don't Pass for $3 and did not Lay Odds.

    I played $3 Don't Come bets and did not lay Odds and kept running $3 wagers through until the Seven.

    I spent about 35 minutes as the shooter, with $25 and quit with $18. The table was a 2X table.

    I also asked the three dealers if the Casino would ever go to at least a 3x4x5x game. They said they wished the management would consider a change. The table was dead. The dealers also felt the same.

    The first five minutes was rather interesting. The other thirty minutes of play required some self evaluation... why I would ever want to shoot Craps again.
     
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  20. $nakeEye$, Oct 27, 2016

    $nakeEye$

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    I can relate to the above -

    A few years ago in AC at the Revel casino - my wife and I formulated a plan -

    She would set the 2V on the Come-Out and establish a point -

    Then switch to the 3V and establish 2 more box numbers -

    Upon the 3rd box number established -

    I would lay odds on my DP wager in addition to my 2 DC wagers -

    Once I placed / layed the odds ( $30 ) against each number -

    She would switch dice sets to an ALL 7 set and immediately - if not sooner - 7-out -

    Thereby creating a WIN for ME !


    WELL, suffice it to say - after a few rounds of this astute play - the fellow at the opposite end of the almost empty table remarked -

    " Lady, YOU are KILLING your husband " !

    It seems that my better half - while setting for the 7's in an effort to produce a 7-out -

    Had ONE of - IF NOT - THE longest rolls she ever produced !

    Needless to say - at times things do NOT result in WHAT was INTENDED !

    And - you can NOT make this sh*t up !

    Be CAREFUL what YOu wish for !

    $...eE..$
     
    #20
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