Dice influence

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    OK I am not totally against the concept of DI. I hear all these fancy terms I suppose with the hope that it garners more belief. So you have things like on axis which I guess so like if you use a hard way set with 6 and 1 on the sides those faces should never show. So with people on here who believe you are a DI have you recorded your toss in a slow motion video and analyzed that to truly see if you are on axis. To me if you have a table and practice and are not recording video you truly are not reaping the benefit of having a table. Terms primary hit. So if you toss and hits the table and bounces like crazy but happens to land with the number you want up it is a primary hit? Talking 1 die here isn't it like a 1 in 6 chance you'll get a primary hit. Then I do love those terms single pitch and double pitch. I have seen videos of tosses but have yet to see any that appear nothing more then random. Does anyone know where there is some. And like tabletop says with his pinpoint accuracy that's all fine and good the only thing I wonder about when they bounce and hit the pyramids they would need to hit those pyramids precisely exact same spot each and every time to get any other then random results I believe. Not knocking table at all just from reading people's posts on DI I would believe table over any one else in here.
     
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  2. Dave G Ct, Aug 2, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    EdwardKy
    Ask any DI - the pyramids are NOT a factor at all. We pay on Outcomes so that die boucing around and settling on a PFH - yes call it PFH! Most PFH' s will have a little Dice turning and sometimes you get a true on axis shot - they are rare.
    But you cannot bank on these slow motion videos- I bank on my PFH to DP ratio which is usually in the range of 5-3 to 1. So no need to strain your eyes on these vids lol
     
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  3. KokomoJoe4, Aug 2, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    :rolleyes:


    Unless you know the dice array, there is no way of your knowing that a 6:4 ten is a PFH. Chances are MUCH better that it is is NOT than is.

    Are your eyes focused that well Dave, that you actually know you have a double pitch? Have many times do you suppose the dice rotate while on their way to the table? As soon as they hit the table, do they only turn twice?

    This is all non-sense.

    Note: I am not saying that you do not shoot well. Perhaps you do. Probably sometimes better than others.

    I am saying that your analysis of PFH vs. DP is non-sense --- you can't track the former accurately without knowing some of the Wizard's (Linaway's) stuff, and you certainly can not perceive what tumbling dice 7 feet away from you are doing OTHER THAN bouncing all over the effing place.
     
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  4. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    Why are they not a factor?
     
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  5. James Hall, Aug 2, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Edward Ky
    I would like to answer your post and I do so with no insult or animosity intended
    I reply with all due respect
    I have been doing this thing for years I have recorded endless hours of throws , not only mine but have doneso with the folks I am working with
    you mention primary faces , on axis , off axis and other aspects
    All of these things are important to have any success with the process
    if you had more understanding of these things and voiced a differing opinion on the validity of the process would be one thing
    but when people say it won't work , with no real understanding of exactly what the process should accomplish creates undue hard feeling

    If you were to say as an example , as some on this forum, the dice can't stay on axis that would be one thing
    the problem however is that they can and do , many times
    you talk about primary faces as tho the number desired is all there is to that , when actually primary faces in the scenario you laid out would be any of those
    faces on that particular axis of rotation which would include the 2s the 3s th4s and the 5s anything as you stated other than the 1s or 6s
    and what that does is reduce the total possible number of 7s from 6 down to 4 as long as the dice finish on axis

    You mentioned single pitch and double pitch , A double pitch on axis with a hardway set will always result in a seven
    on axis and single pitch cannot result in 7
    the tough part of this process is to keep the dice on axis , you have to know how and you have to practice
    you mentioned Table top's accuracy and I understand he is very accurate , that is a very important asset
    you couple that with several other necessary assets which I am more than sure he also possesses and you have the making of a winning game
     
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  6. Dave G Ct, Aug 2, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    EdwardKy
    With regards to the pyramids my Dice hit the lower lip. They touch down 22" from BW and skip 2 bounces to the lower lip.They rarely hit high and will never bounce off the table.
     
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  7. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 2, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    Once the dice hit the table surface, any "On-Axis Toss" is over with as the dice will bounce off the table surface in a 'RANDOM' directions and angles. Once the dice connect with the diamond backwall, randomness is absolutely ensured.

    This 'Ignore the backwall' and 'the backwall does not matter' sort of brainwashing is from the scammers who profit from DI seminars and coaching. They just want you to suspend reality and believe in the absurdity that they preach.

    Now, if DI worked, then why are they out there teaching any 'Jim and Jane' who comes along, and not using it themselves in the casino? If it worked, why then would the casino allow the shooters to set the dice or even toss the dice at all? I mean, the casinos could easily install a Dice Tower, or use any number of mechanical means for the dice to be rolled to determine the outcome.

    [​IMG]

    Those who claim to be DI's either don't play Craps at all and this is all Fantasy gaming in their heads, or play so darn infrequently they tend to romanticize DI and the game far more than is healthy. And, of course there are just scumbags out there peddling the DI seminars and coaching as a means to make money and who will say ANYTHING to get anyone to sign up to a class.

    While DI dice setting and tossing is a may be a sign of maturity with the game of Craps, it is not by any means an advantage play. I have meet and talked to a lot of Craps players over the last few years. Some of them are local Las Vegas players who play everyday, others are visitors who are in Vegas 2 or 3 times a month to play. When you talk about DI with them, none of them see it as advantage play however many see like good luck charm, just like those ladies who paw at the slot machine screens in the belief that enough pawing at the screen will make the symbols you want to show up. "Hey, it can't hurt", is the motto of such players.

    In my opinion, you have to know how to play Craps for Keeps (meaning for the money). Most players play as how the casino teaches them to play or from some book they read that is essentially regurgitating how the casino says for the players to play. All of that is loser play, and while luck will happen, continue playing like that will erase wins and losses will occur.

    The play that the casino does not like is:
    • Any sort of regression play at craps
    • Any type of martingale play at blackjack/Roulette or any game where you have a near 50/50 chance of winning.
    Yeah, you have to have the bankroll to manage this, and you have to have good money management skills and the discipline to not go on tilt when losing or on a binge when winning. AND, it is those two things I see all the time as why people are broke.

    When losing, players make stupid long-shot bets in hopes of recovering losses in one lucky strike. When winning players dump their wins back on the table as in huge bets in hopes of 'winning more' and often end up giving back to the house all that they won.

    There really is a behavioral psychology about gambling addiction that is frightening. Person A wins big at the casino. You think they take the big win and pay off debts and put some in the bank for a rainy day. Nope, not the afflicted gambler, for they turn right around with the big win and go for more wins. They will play till it is gone, and all the debts they have and all the other neglected things they said they get to once they hit the big win are left untouched.

    Many people who are full blown gambling addicts or boarderline gambling addicts tend to gravitate towards any clam of Advantage play. DI is just yet another scam that is run on these poor afflicted people who are desperate for wins, and will believe anything because they are desperate.
     
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  8. James Hall, Aug 2, 2016

    James Hall

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    Dave GCt
    I am not familiar with a lot of the abbreviations you guys use , what is PFH ?
    We here in Mesa use the video a lot of the time ,
    I film the guys as much as I do dice out comes
    I have a projector that hooks up thru my computer so I can project the guys throw on a screen life size or larger
    so we can see what his hands are doing what direction they are moving
    at what point he releases the dice ,
    we can see if the dice are rotating together , how many times they rotate .
    we get a ton of information so we know if we need to adjust the arc of the throw, the velocity ,
    so we know the point on the table where the dice hit
    so we know what adjustments might be necessary so that if a guy gets to Vegas and he needs to make such adjustments he can do so , shot to shot
     
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  9. TDVegas, Aug 2, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Jeez, Dave...how can you say this with a straight face?
     
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  10. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    For 1 stop making assumptions.
    Just because someone asks a question don't assume they don't know something. Also just because I don't believe you have the success you say you have doesn't mean that I believe DI is BS.
     
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  11. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    James pft = primary face hit
     
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  12. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    OK so your saying watching exactly what the dice do won't assist you at all. I'm sorry but that don't make any sense at all. So you are saying since it hit a number I want it must work. OK so you bounce them twice before they get to the back wall and land underneath the pyramids. I would say you would probably throw short quite often and would get 'Heat'. How often do you play caps in a casino Dave?
     
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  13. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    No I just didn't want to make a book out of 1 post.
     
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  14. James Hall, Aug 2, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Crapspoopshooter
    all that you say there makes a lot of sense however there is a boatload of misconception that has been created in the concepts of the pyramids and the dice always coming off axis etc.
    some was caused by the people taking lessons
    a lot of the problem stems from the fact that people are allowed to come in and take a one hour lesson
    they then leave not understanding anything about what has been told to them
    as in the case in every teaching learning environment some of the problem if not the bulk of the problem resides with the instructor
    the idea that the pyramids always cause the dice to go off axis sounds totally reasonable
    however , if they do and how much they do depends entirely how hard the dice hit the back wall
    the rule in the casino is "the dice must hit the back wall"
    the rule does not say how hard is necessary
    you said randomness is ensured , not necessarily if you can get the dice to hit the back wall soft enough
    that takes pinpoint accuracy Table Top told me several times thru the course of some very heated conversations that he has that kind of accuracy I BELIEVE HIM
    the reason I believe him is because I TOO HAVE THAT KIND OF ACCURACY after many thousands of hours of practice

    there are several skill sets that allow a skilled shooter to pull off more rolls than the average random player
    and allows him to do so on a rather consistent basis
    I myself have trained several very capable individuals
    Like many other things in life it is a learn able skill
    but it takes knowing how and then a lot of practice on a casino style craps table
     
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  15. tabletop123, Aug 2, 2016

    tabletop123

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    Well, i have always said that the most that a aspiring Di will accomplish is excellent pitch control, & sniper- like Accuracy at hitting a target/s! Are these attributes ENOUGH to make you a consistent winner? Only YOU can answer that question! As for myself........ BARELY! What i learned, is simply that IF YOU PLAY VERY TIGHTLY, & learn to get YOUR INITIAL investment off of the table QUICKLY........ you stand a good chance at Success! Thinking that you can power press & leave your bets up forever is a Sure-fire Date with Death! Listen, we all know that the best way for success is to use Regression moves & play with "Casino" Money! Once you have your investnent back, EVERYTHING else is pure gravy! The biggest problem is putting out the initial large bet, & getting those 1-2 hits, to allow regression! One thing that i know for a FACT........ If you REALLY think that you have a measurable degree of influence....... Regression Play is the ONLY way to play, because no matter how good that you THINK You toss, most hands will be relatively short! NO ONE has a long term SRR of over 6.5, & if you THINK that you do, UNDER CASINO CONDITIONS........ Dice Influencing SHOULD be your llife Long Mission! Now, you guys know that i am Pro-Dice Influencing (to a certain extent,) but all of this "Balls to the Walls" Di'ng attitude just makes me laugh! Incidentally...... You can catch all of the Great Shooters & Gurus at the $5 Tables clutching their bankrolls like its their last crumbled up $10 bill, & MOST LIKELY doing a 22 count (not a 5 count) on their own shooting! TableTop is about the only idiot that "sends it in" as if he expects to influence the roll! As you very well know, SOMETIMES its a complete Nut Clipping, but with my new style of play (Gun & run, pee, & flee) its gonna be pretty difficult to re-clip Old TableTop's nuts!
     
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  16. betwthelines, Aug 2, 2016

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    well, now isn't this real interesting?

    why i use the same technology to analyze my ballerina toss...

    BUT the rubber meets the road only in the casino...yep, last night at the local joint the ol' BT produced rolls of
    14, 76, 12, 109, 6, 4, 91, 74, and 44​
    yet another big win for this ol' pro

    tom p
    -g. geist: lame
    --tom p:
    ---g. geist: you know this is the dice influencing section, you should really take your not-funny bullshit elsewhere
    ----tom p: yah...i suppose you might have something there...
     
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  17. James Hall, Aug 2, 2016

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    I guess I can use that,,, I just always called primary face hits
     
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  18. James Hall, Aug 2, 2016

    James Hall

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    BT
    very impressive
     
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  19. eagleeye2, Aug 2, 2016

    eagleeye2

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    Now the above has been a good exchange of theory, just what the folks here desire.

    Way to Go!

    eagleeye2
     
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  20. Edward-ky, Aug 2, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    It would be interesting to see some tosses but that isn't going to happen. This SRR is another interesting term seeing as people come up with different ways to come up with it. If you set for a 7 on the come out that doesn't count you have 2 different ones or something like that.
     
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