Dice classes Return On Investment

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Dave G Ct, Dec 29, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Yes let's take one of Heavy's classes in Biloxi, Mi.A new student taking the 2 day package.for $947 or somewhere around that number.
    Airfare from Hartford $730- car rental $100 or so.Hotel $160 _ 2 nights.Food - $150 or so Total outlay- roughly close to $2000.
    That is a significant investment.I am in advertising.You invest $2000 you expect a return of $14000.- 7 times your outlay.
    So what can the student expect to realize in his ROI? First like in business there is no guarantee of success.You may miss your target market, product bad reviews, competitor responses.So the dice player has NO guarantees of success.
    If you are a red chip poster- forget it.It could take years to recoup that investment.Green chip- possible but unlikely.Black chip- doable- then again how many high rollers are taking the class?
    ....Heavy's own words - 80℅ of attendees do not improve their game- maybe they do not practice or fall into unwise betting strategies.But for the average player you will take a big hit.I said before You Have To Have The Talent! It cannot be taught.
    I am not even getting into those After Glow Fees.Heavy charges them to keep away the Lookie Loos? Did you ever hear anything so stupid?
    Now if you want to spend the money to rub shoulders with other forum members and Heavy - fine I can see that.But a return on investment? Can we all say " Ain't Going To Happen"
     
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  2. tabletop123, Dec 29, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Dave, let the "Heavy" stuff go! You are beating a Dead Horse! However, I will address your post about Talent!

    I do believe that you can work very hard to become adequately skilled at something! However, what separates the Men from the Boys is "Sheer talent", a unwavering resolve to succeed, but most importantly......A KILLER INSTINCT!

    You must possess that congenital trait to want to absolutely MURDER the competition! It goes waaayyyyy beyond just wanting to win!

    Now, let's face it, most people will NOT possess a killer trait! It is what it is! Some people are just BORN with talent! Not fair, but just the way it is!

    I have always possessed superior hand/eye coordination, & fortunately I grew up around some very talented Hustlers that DEPENDED EXCLUSIVELY on hand/eye coordinated skills! Also, these guys were absolutely FEARLESS.........Which is something that you either have it, or you dont!
     
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  3. Dave G Ct, Dec 29, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Top
    That is what I have been saying all along.But everyone is thinking " Let me take a class, now I have an advantage "
    Does not happen.Top - can we see one student who has taken a class say" Hey turned my game around- Never heard it once.
     
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  4. basicstrategy777, Dec 29, 2016

    basicstrategy777

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    IMHO.....well over 50% of winning depends on how you bet and discipline.......DI or no DI.

    777
     
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  5. Dave G Ct, Dec 29, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Guess you will not be attending lol
     
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  6. Pressit, Dec 29, 2016

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    Your return? Long or short term? Can't speak for Heavy's class as I never attended one of his seminars, but ideally one should win enough to cover your expenses. 7 times, not sure where that figure came from...7 times. WOW, now that would be something.

    My return on May 2011 LJ 3 day seminar in AC was paid in full. Never took a PARR or GTC seminars. The good thing about the seminars, if you are so incline, you have the instructors to correct your mistakes. PARR as I have always said is like a fine Italian gun, beautiful to see, feel, shoot, but one small glitch affect the whole toss. LJ on the other hand is very forgiving, it is more on the order of a AK47, shake, rattle and roll, you still can achieve good results.
     
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  7. tabletop123, Dec 29, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    I could care less about the success rate of a Class! I wouldn't want to meet another Di (self professed) anyways! Sooner or later "The ones" that ARE TRULY doing well with the dice will realize that "Detatchment" from other skilled shooters speaks volumes!

    "Two heads are better than one"! "If my toss is off, maybe my partner/s toss is "On", or the patented Bullshit excuse.......Another pair of eyes is always good to help you correct any problems that you may have!

    BIGGEST CROCK OF SHIT THAT I HAVE EVER HEARD! If you can't straighten things out ON YOUR OWN, you shouldn't be in the Casinos!

    Perhaps another refresher course? Don't make me friggin laugh! You spend XYZ number of years practicing a craft, but it's good to have a partner/s........JUST IN CASE? Hilarious!

    Dice Influencers.......A very strange breed, indeed!
     
    #7
  8. Dave G Ct, Dec 29, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Comparing the investment in a dice class to an investment in advertising.Seven times the initial outlay is expected and in a short time say a 3-4 month period.
     
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  9. tabletop123, Dec 29, 2016

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Pressitt, I will agree that ANY toss that is easy to grip & toss is your BEST avenue! Not to mention the FACT that uncomplicated tosses allows you to "March on" with total impunity!
     
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  10. Linaway, Dec 29, 2016

    Linaway

    Linaway Member

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    Pressit,

    Shake rattle n roll! How about adding to the dice stew pot there are far more off axis results than on axis! However, do the multitudes know what they're seeing at outcome? You know the drill. Then one of my favorite gotchas' is what do you preset?

    Tabletop, you've done the dice dance. Ever notice how dancing with dice is like doing that jive crap with two partners, never knowing which way either one will turn?

    What axis in hell will the shooters achieve?
     
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  11. Pressit, Dec 29, 2016

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    Linaway

    Didn't want to further complicate the issue, if you get my drift. Everything is off axis to some degree, so why not start that way? Lol
     
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  12. Linaway, Dec 29, 2016

    Linaway

    Linaway Member

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    Pressit,

    Couldn't agree more yet I am a glutton for punishment. After all I post on this board! LOL

    However I must add one more jab at this. The outcome will be off axis most of the time. Where o' where should I make my bets?
     
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  13. superrick, Dec 29, 2016

    superrick

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  14. Dave G Ct, Dec 29, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Get off my thread.No drama queen zone
     
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  15. Pressit, Dec 29, 2016

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    Hopefully not in the same place where we make our beds. Although thinking back on things I may have done exactly that once or twice, or several hundred times.
     
    #15
  16. random_roller, Dec 29, 2016

    random_roller

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    Finance 101: ROI doesn't take into account the likelihood returns (benefits) will match projections, nor any intangible aspects of the opportunity. Forecasting gambling cash flows (basically gaming wins/losses) with the requisite degree of accuracy needed (for the ROI calculation to be meaningful) is likely something the individual gambler cannot do. The costs associated with taking a DI course can be fairly well documented.
     
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  17. Twelve4s, Dec 29, 2016

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Advanced Finance 401:

    For maximum guaranteed ROI while gambling, simply go to Vegas and do what SR does, bet on the numbers that are hitting. No need for expensive training. He might even pick you up at the airport and drive you to the RIGHT casinos, and thus reducing your overall transportation expenses and therefore increasing your ROI. Keep it simple, just do as the winners do. LTWOQ
     
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  18. TDVegas, Dec 29, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I do find it quite comical that at no point do any of these dice coaches or DI teachers actually have to demonstrate themselves to their students that it works.

    Perfect selling opportunity...at no point do you have to demonstrate what you sell actually works or is possible.

    Why am I thinking when I ask them to demonstrate it works...I'm going to be shown the door...?

    A real credible study would take a lot of rolling...but it seems to me these guys won't even do a cursory demo of 36, maybe 72 rolls (1 or 2 sets of 36) to show...something...anything.
     
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  19. Liman

    Liman Member

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    dave, what the fuck is up with you constantly looking for any outlet mainly this board to harass someone else?

    you don't like heavy or his classes, fine, I don't think its worth it either, but what heck do you care at this point who feels they need the instruction?
    Has Mr. Heavy ever strong armed you or anyone else into paying him for his classes?
    I think life coaches and many other professions are the biggest rip offs in the world, yet, 1000s of people go see them every single day.
    Did you ever think people WANT to pay for comeraderie around a craps table?
    Maybe someone wants to experience his classes and the money is no problem at all, they don't view it as ROI type of thing.

    when will you give it a break?

    who are you to tell people how they should spend their money?

    I don't agree with a lot of the stuff and charges I see from him and many other self claimed craps experts who offer classes and instructions, but I don't feel the need to bash him just because this is an open board where it is allowed.

    Your posts offer zero value lately, soon you will make it easy for most posters to just ignore your threads and opinions.
     
    #19
  20. tabletop123, Dec 29, 2016

    tabletop123

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    My sentiments exactly!
     
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