DI training aids

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. DeMango, Feb 17, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Yes it is. BoneTracker will translate those 36 die faces into 576 different sets. 44.4% of those results will be on axis. You are listening to the wrong crowd of one.
     
    #21
  2. lone irish digit, Feb 18, 2021

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney

    Enough with wizards and bonertracker. The best DI training devices were the DI Skunkhats. Not only did they help the budding DIs keep his balance it also helped empty the table so DIs could ply their skills without the issues that randies can cause. However, with last years devastating tornadoes and this years corona virus pandemonium the supply of skunks have dried ups and the LID was forced to go out of business.
     
    #22
  3. twodicebilly, Feb 18, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    demango

    You keep brining up Wong.....maybe you can ask him about little Joe Green.

    You keep referring to bone tracker and GTC uses Smart craps and you can go on and on
    about which one is better, how you cant win with out them, not quite the end of the rainbow.

    I have seen Heavy and Howard and KOKO Ninja and the dice coach, and Rick and Snake and Dom
    and frank and Jerry, and nick and Carlito and set44 and many others.....and no one....ever throws
    exactly the same every time you go to the table, so if you dont always throw the same you cant expect the
    same results you get with Bone Tracker or Smart Craps....

    The idea behind what Linaway teaches is to understand what your shot is producing in relation to the
    set you are using, what your dice are doing and are you in the group you need to be.

    When GTC trains with the hardway set and measures your on axis finish....all they are really doing is
    determining what percentage of your shots end with a 2,3,4,5 on each die. Has nothing to do with on
    axis finish. There is nothing wrong with that, you need to measure progress, but an on axis finish is much
    different than just the numbers on top.

    The best we can do is understand as much as we can, play where our shot works most similar to your
    home table and learn how to adjust sets when your throw is slightly different than it was two days ago.

     
    #23
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
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  4. superricktoyou, Feb 22, 2021

    superricktoyou

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    I can see someone walking into a casino and telling the stickman, wait for a minute, I got to check out Bone Tracker or Smart Craps to see what set to us!


    Then the next thing you then hear after making their shot is seven-out line away!


    Gee, I wish I learned how to use Bone Tracker or Smart Craps!
     
    #24
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  5. twodicebilly, Feb 22, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    RICK


    Amen


    tdb
     
    #25
  6. KokomoJoe4, Feb 22, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Today I received an e-mail from Linaway entitled 'A nice remembrace'. It contains an e-mail sent to him by Little Joe Green.

    After reading it at the end of the day at work, I phoned Linaway on the ride home to ask if I could post LJG's note to him here on-line. I told Linaway that I would copy it and replace his name with his handle, Linaway. He told me yes, go ahead and post it, so I will, but not until tomorrow at work since it's already past time to hit the sack.

    It is an interesting read.

    When we spoke today, Linaway told me that he thinks LJG is no longer with us, and based on what he told me why he thinks this, it seems to me he is probably correct - sad news if true.
     
    #26
  7. twodicebilly, Feb 23, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    KOKO

    I am thinking that is more than likely the case. I can remember talking to him a number of times
    and it was pretty much like talking to James. You would be talking craps in general and all of a sudden
    they would say something that was an insight to how they played, they were not telling you to play like
    that, this is their view.

    But both were reacting to what the dice were doing, neither took some cooked up scheme to the table.

    I dont think there is anything wrong with Smart craps, i dont think there is anything wrong with bone tracker,
    there is nothing wrong with recording every throw at the table, there is nothing wrong with the GTC shot, or
    the little Joe shot or the PARR shot, or the material of Linaway, these are just things you try or use to see
    what works best for you...

    All of us that play the game for most of our life have some pretty good memories on the table.

    TDB
     
    #27
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  8. KokomoJoe4, Feb 23, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    OK, here is what the wizard sent me regarding Little Joe, the guy who's shooting won the dice challenge.

    Linaway,

    You are right there. Lots of dice sites, not many worth the powder to blow ‘em to hell.

    I see that VDC has a site too and he’s into selling a “TrendSetter” bet/play strategy. My guess is it is more nonsense like the very expensive Steve Nelie“Method” touted by the Dice Coach in Las Vegas.

    It seems misery loves company and when some people figure out they got screwed they help encourage others to do the same.

    The snake oil sales people have figured you can sell almost anything if the price is high because many people figure a high price guarantees genuine value. heh, heh, heh.

    I’m glad Rick is helping people become aware of you, sonny, and your program. I think that is awesome and right because you deal in facts that help folks like me understand about dice without all the BS.

    I see Rick also mentions and even recommends the Little Joe school. I wish he would not do that.

    Here is a little history I think I’ve written about before. Pardon my redundancy please. Anyway, Jerry Patterson was among the first to peddle craps and craps schools. He has a long history in peddling blackjack haha winning systems too.

    His craps program is called PARR and that is an acronym for Patterson’s Advanced Rhythm Roll. After he milked the market with the PARR shot and the competition sprung up including Golden Touch Craps etc, he offered a new haha winning shot called “Magic”. Students were sworn to privacy and once they completed the course they were called dice magicians. When that petered out he marketed the “Z” shot and “Z-Plus”. Then he came out with programs on hypnotics and so on.

    After Stanford published his book there was an article in the Cigar Aficionado Magazine and a brief report on the Wizard of Odds website about that talked about “Little Joe”. Patterson came out very soon afterwards with a Little Joe shot. Coincidental? Perhaps.

    But I am proud to say it is not my shot. In fact, the toss I used during the challenge was the PARR shot done right handed from stick right with my right hip against the table with dice side by side and positioned perpendicular to the side wall. It is not the bread and butter shot that I use today. Some of the gurus call this type of toss a “suitcase” toss. ha, ha, ha….

    I think the Little Joe group are mongrels from PARR, Magic, Z, and the hypnotic branch who bought out Patterson. They sell for big bucks different ways to handle and toss dice along with a few old canned PARR bet schemes.

    You advocate using any dice grip, toss, that accomplishes certain results along with a way to determine how or when to bet. Now that is rhythm rolling and well exceeds what the gurus peddle. Your All in One CD gives much more than that and for a few bucks. If he knew about you or your research, Patterson would have made a fortune off you.

    That’s why I wish Rick would drop the references to Little Joe school. After all they come from the father of GTC and Power Axis and who knows how many websites. They are no where near your calibre when it comes to dice, honesty, and a fair shake.

    As I’ve said before, these dice school experts, gurus, and paper hangers cannot afford to let you spill the beans about dice. That’s why they pound the war drum when they here your handle and see your posts.

    So sad!

    By the way, here’s what one of the GTC coaches sent me by text yesterday after our winning session.

    Nice playing with a skilled advantage player like you, Joe... I think what we just did is what advantage play and playing with an edge is all about...

    I played with him ten times last year and we wound up 8 wins 2 losses. I can probably toss a GTC shot with the best of them, I did not use it in his presence yesterday and he never insinuated the GTC shot or bet approach is the only way to go. He does sometimes talk about how newbies need to focus and be consistent in everything. I think that might suggest that the system sellers and website bullshitters are more full of shit than actual players that hit the bricks.

    OK…. scuse my rant!

    Joe

    Dice Channeler and damn proud of it!

    __________________________________________________________________________________________


    KJ4, Joe may have spelled his last name as this.....Greene

    Here is another piece of history. I'm going to look into old emails during this period or just before if possible and see what I can find. Anyway Superrick told me about this incident.

    One day he asked me if I knew I had a pro craps player as a student. Said no. Who is it? He told me it was LIL Joe Green. I did not know anything about it.

    Rick further told me did you know that Joe deleted all of his lengthy post from Heavy's board to come join ours to be where he could access your concepts. Didn't know that either. Later as Joe and I became very good friends, I then was aware of the extremely great person I had learning what I knew about dice.

    He and I had some experiences in electronics we would share. As time went on he and I became very good friends spending a lot of time on phone calls. Not once did Joe talk down to me about craps but listened intently to what I was telling him about our material.

    Just so you know, Joe acquired our ALL IN ONE CD, Random Roller [our electronic dice] and our Bone Chucker. We had not yet released our Dice Rules CD.

    Another incident. One day Joe calls me and said he had dice trouble. Turns out the night before he had some good results with a pair of dice. The following morning he had all kinds of trouble with them. I asked what the temperatures were the night before in the basement where he had his shooting station. He said no and that night before said the wind chill was 40 below zero. Heater was turned up in basement that night.

    Next day dice were very cold as was the room. I told him to warm the dice to ambient temps he was using before. He did and dice were back to normal again.

    I'll let you know if I can find anything else about mine & Joe’s mail.
     
    #28
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  9. twodicebilly, Feb 23, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko


    I have read this couple of times and i dont understand it.

    The idea that you can beat the table is the life blood of craps, its what dreams are
    made of. Look what Moneymaker did to Poker.

    The idea that you can beat the table just by using a GTc shot or a parr shot or a little
    joe shot or any other kind shot means nothing because of you paid attention you will
    see that every shooter is different, Dom shots the GTC shot different than Jerry did
    and Rick shoots the LJ shot different than I do and different than Bob, certainly
    Howard shoots it differently, Heavy is not the same as Frank or the dice coach is
    not the same a koko ninga and most the so called experts on the computer are in a
    world of their own.

    There is no magic, for me i would like to see as many people take classes as possible
    so the casino sees that for 99% of the people it makes no difference. We need more
    people playing or the game you and i play is dead because it costs to much for a casino to
    run empty tables.

    I say take any shooting class you want, its your money and for most it is fun, wont make
    you a fortune, but hundreds of people pay fishing guides $500 a day to catch 5-6 walleyes
    or $10,000 to shoot an elk, lord knows how much for a week downtown with one of the girls
    from Glitter Gultch.

    TDB
     
    #29
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  10. superricktoyou, Feb 23, 2021

    superricktoyou

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    I can see someone walking into a casino and telling the stickman, wait for a minute, I got to check out Bone Tracker or Smart Craps to see what set to us!



    Then the next thing you then hear after making their shot is seven-out line away!



    Gee, I wish I learned how to use Bone Tracker or Smart Craps!
     
    #30
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  11. DeMango, Feb 23, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    As with a lot of things in the computer age, a lot of que tips get left behind and have no answer but ridicule. Sucks to be them.
     
    #31
  12. twodicebilly, Feb 23, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    RICK

    Nothing works all the time, as you know when i got on here first i was a little excited
    about ideas that i felt would help, so was James and others.....we know what some
    people like Demango always said, and it sure as hell was not constructive.

    Live and learn.

    TDB
     
    #32
  13. KokomoJoe4, Feb 23, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    What I find most interesting about LJG's talk to Linaway is that he, as I, identifies all of the selling of craps expertise is a crock of shit. This from the guy who paid to learn some of this stuff (Patterson's), and who obviously had more success at it than most.

    After he won the dice challenge, Patterson presented a "new" shot for student's to learn, the "Little Joe". LJG states that all of the "experts" following and including Patterson are shysters. You can see in Linaway's follow up e-mail to me, listed below the line in post 28, this includes Heavy.

    When LJG saw Linaway's material, he knew it was the real deal. When you see then learn the material, this becomes obvious.

    As Little Joe says, "You advocate using any dice grip, toss, that accomplishes certain results along with a way to determine how or when to bet. Now that is rhythm rolling and well exceeds what the gurus peddle. Your All in One CD gives much more than that and for a few bucks. If he knew about you or your research, Patterson would have made a fortune off you."

    Because he is a trained shooter, LJG recognizes ways to use Linaway's material to his advantage. Does this mean he always wins? Of course not, no one can do this.

    Develop a good playing strategy, and be flexible about changing your play when it is not working.

    If you want to try to improve your shooting, great go for it, but recognize that learning as much as you can about the dice is very likely the best way to go about this, since it will involve the use of sets that the "experts" would snivel at. Just remember, look at your outcome as carefully as you look at your set.
     
    #33
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  14. twodicebilly, Feb 23, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko

    again i am not sure what your trying to say here.......first all Linaway and i have talked for many hours
    about dice channeling and individual contributions. One of the main things was that each player has
    a unique shot and influence on the dice. When you match that to an understanding of the dice, you got
    a chance.

    Second Joe never played with many other people, he was very careful with that, and he was careful
    about going back to a casino time after time when he did win. I think it is interesting in that you seem
    to say he thought all that stuff about GTC and others were all frauds..... while
    his playing partner was a GTC instructor and he was my instructor. And before lost we contact he talked to me several times about taking the LJ class.

    Seems like your missing part of the story.

    Now Linaways material is great, i really like it, but it like everything else has limitations.If your sighting
    in a rifle and it is shooting 1 foot to the right, that wont do you any good unless you know how to adjust
    the sights.... Knowing the dice gives you a much better chance of adjusting your set if you find your
    shot is slightly different than it was last week, or table conditions are different. You dont have to cut down
    the guys that use the GTC shot or the Little Joe shot because you think that makes Linaways material
    look better.

    TDB
     
    #34
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  15. KokomoJoe4, Feb 24, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    TDB,

    No wish to argue with anyone about DI and instruction therein.

    All I am saying is that Little Joe seems to see the same hucksterism that I do, in spite of the fact that he at one time paid for some "expert's" services, I presume Jerry Patterson's.

    As you say. No big deal. We are all free to do with our discretionary funds as we wish.
     
    #35
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  16. twodicebilly, Feb 24, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko

    Like i say. I spoke to him a number of times and he never mentioned that
    to me.
    When you think about it you are just as much of a huckster as the people you
    are accusing of that. They say learn this shot or betting system and you will do much
    better, You say bs they cant prove it...you say it is all BS and without knowing the exact
    affect of these classes for everyone, you dont have a clue if it worked or not either.

    TDB
     
    #36
  17. KokomoJoe4, Feb 24, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    C'mon TDB, I am not telling people to pay me to teach them how to toss the dice better.

    Those doing this are the shysters.

    If someone asked me, I would tell them that the tossing of dice will give variable, unpredictable results.

    If pushed further on the matter, I would make the statement "since learning Linaway's Dice Speak, I have began to shoot out of a couple of different G1 sets, looking to get better results."

    If asked, have results been better?, I would say yes.

    Am I now a dice influencer? No, I'm the same asshole I've always been. I would attribute my better results when shooting to dice channeling. ;)
     
    #37
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  18. twodicebilly, Feb 24, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    #38
  19. twodicebilly, Feb 24, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko

    Well each to his own, opinion, i hope Linaway does not feel like that
    because the better your shot is the better chance you have of making linaways
    information useful.
    Koko we wont talk of this again

    TDB
     
    #39
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  20. Dave G Ct, Feb 24, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    DeMango is right about Chi and Bone Tracker.Now I don't measure my Chi - too lazy.Yoy need a book of rolls. BT I don't plan on changing either my 2-V or 3-V so for me I am content to just read my live play and practices.
     
    #40
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