DI training aids

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Dave G Ct, Feb 15, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    When you think of DI training aids one first thinks of tables or practice rigs.Yes I think they are important.But after using one and progressing in your toss where do you go next?

    Yes you can construct camera angles to view your actual toss.But I would concentrate on the landing.How do the dice touch down- in conjuncture to one another.So but a value throw blanket and smooth out the fibers.Toss your dice and view the imprint if each die upon landing.Works for me.
     
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  2. Dave G Ct, Feb 15, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Valur throw - spelling feature reason why I have grammar mistakes lol
     
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  3. DeMango, Feb 15, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    BoneTracker. Although costly to go without a practice rig, there is no substitute for computer analysis of real casino rolls.
     
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  4. Dave G Ct, Feb 15, 2021

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Probably are right.A pain to record lol
     
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  5. KokomoJoe4, Feb 15, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Spend a couple hundred bucks on the Wizard's Dice Speak and I can assure you that your eyes will be opened.
     
    #5
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  6. lone irish digit, Feb 15, 2021

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney

    The LID said I need to post this to reeducate Koko (not the monkey) and Mr Guacamole on Chi Squares and Bonertracker and just consider the money on craps gadgets as sunk costs. If you have the time go thru all of the video. Must be cold as hell in the Texas today.




     
    #6
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  7. lone irish digit, Feb 15, 2021

    lone irish digit

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    The LID said the video is very interesting but I must confess that for a non player of the craps it put me to sleep by the 20 second mark
     
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  8. DeMango, Feb 15, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    BoneTracker is free and much more eye opening.
     
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  9. DeMango, Feb 16, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Haven't watched it yet, Heavy was shut out with the storm.
     
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  10. twodicebilly, Feb 16, 2021

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko

    Is there any reason why dice speak does not come from Linaway????

    TDB
     
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  11. KokomoJoe4, Feb 16, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    TDB,

    the Wizard IS Linaway!
     
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  12. von duck, Feb 16, 2021

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Oh, so who is the "new" KokomoJoe4, anybody we know? :)
     
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  13. von duck, Feb 16, 2021

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    No substitute huh, does there need to be. :)
     
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  14. HornHighBLEVE, Feb 16, 2021

    HornHighBLEVE

    HornHighBLEVE Member

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    ....because the power generating windmills had frozen up, that's the story from the RFD channel.
     
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  15. DeMango, Feb 16, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Truly is amazing, in the age of the computer, how people resist what will help them. Right Dave???
     
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  16. KokomoJoe4, Feb 16, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Don't have the energy or interest to watch the whole thing, BUT take a look at about the 34 to 40 minute mark where he puts up bonetracker and starts to "explain" it.

    He speaks, but has no idea wtf he's talking about.

    Why?

    Because while he finds it important to define FOUR dice faces for his set, which he states explicitly and which is entirely correct, he COMPLETELY IGNORES THIS CONCEPT with his outcome result. He might think he addresses this where bonetracker labels results as PFH or right or left die off axis, or both dice off axis, but this entire concept is based ONLY on the table of 36, as shown in his Roll Result box. This does NOT consider permutations which exist in the 3 dimensional world, as will be shown below. There are actually 576 of these.

    As I have showed on this board over and over and over again, and will show once more below, there is no way in hell you can define a so-called primary face hit WITHOUT CONSIDERING FOUR DICE FACES in your outcome result.

    He labels his results showing only top numbers in his listing of roll result. Why do you consider four dice faces for your set but not for your result? How in the name of God can you determine if you are on-axis unless you consider your result the same way you consider your starting set?

    After the talk about bonetracker, he goes on to say that when practicing, he pulls out his little notebook into which he writes left die and right die results, then later takes this information to bonetracker.

    What he does NOT say or know is that because he is not considering four dice faces at outcome, and because bonetracker interprets results only in the table of 36 as seen in the roll result table, the output he receives from bonetracker is worthless.

    OK, at about 34:20, he explains that you must always shoot out of the same set. He uses a 3V where dice are left 3 top/6 facing and right 3 top/ 2 facing. This shows a 2/5:1/6 axial array.

    If you rotate the dice around this setup to obtain the "magical 16 so-called primary face hits" in this set, you will see that only the 4:3 seven can show. As an example, I will use the outcome result [6][2], which according to the expert, will show as a PFH (blue in roll result table).

    Consider seeing any/all of the following during the course of your play, where first number is left die top, second number left die front, colon, third number is right die top, fourth number right die front:


    6/2:2/1 H6 with 3/4:4/3 axial array
    6/3:2/1 X6 w/ 5/2:3/4 aa
    6/5:2/1 H6 w/ 43:3/4 aa
    6/4:2/1 X6 w/ 2/5:3/4 aa
    6/2:2/4 2V w/ 3/4:1/6 aa
    6/2:2/6 H6 w/ 3/4:4/3 aa
    6/2:2/3 2V w/ 3/4:6/1 aa
    6/3:2/6 X6 w/ 5/2:4/3 aa
    6/3:2/4 3V w/ 5/2:1/6 aa
    6/3:2/3 3V w/ 5/2:6/1 aa
    6/5:2/3 2V w/ 4/3:6/1 aa
    6/5:2/6 H6 w/ 4/3:4/3 aa
    6/5:2/4 2V w/ 4/3:1/6 aa
    6/4:2/3 3V w/ 2/5:6/1 aa
    6/4:2/6 X6 w/ 2/5:4/3 aa
    6/4:2/4 3V w/ 2/5:1/6 aa

    Above are the 16 possible permutations of a [6][2] eight, where the left die is six, right die is 2.

    Hmm, now let me see. By definition as per the experts using bonetracker and shooting out of the 3/6:3/2 3V set, the [6][2] eight is a primary face hit because it is one of the 16 possible on-axis outcomes of this set.

    However, as has been shown above, there are actually sixteen ways in which this so-called PFH can occur in 3 dimensions. These are permutations, and there are 576 of them in the dice.

    Four of these permutations are in the horizontal sixes, four in the crossed sixes, four in the 2V, and four in the 3V that we started with. However, only one of the 16 is truly on-axis, using the correct definition of such, which is shown in the middle heirarchy of the dice, the axial array.

    I rest my case. ;)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  17. DeMango, Feb 17, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    You can expand BT to show all 576 permutations. This is a spreadsheet.
    The longer you go on, the more I identify the wizard by his real name: Jim Jones
     
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  18. KokomoJoe4, Feb 17, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Linaway is the Einstein of dice.

    He has forgotten more about them than the so-called experts know.

    He believes that proper knowledge of the dice gives the craps player his best opportunity to take some money from the table. As we all know, this ain't easy to do with regularity.
     
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  19. DeMango, Feb 17, 2021

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    There is no knowledge of the dice. There is the influenced toss. There is the measurement of die face results, of that influenced toss, where they end up. Then a computer program notes what the results would have been, with all those 576 dice sets. Stanford Wong knows more than your so called wizard. Stop drinking the Kool Aide.
     
    #19
  20. KokomoJoe4, Feb 17, 2021

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    DM,

    I have never used and until yesterday had never seen bonetracker. However, for the [6][2] or [2][6] eight rolled out of the 3V set used by the speaker, there are only two possibilities listed for the six/two eight. (1) on-axis, (2) both dice off axis.

    As you can I hope see in my above posting, the six/two eight shows equally likely in H6, X6, 2V and 3V. It can NOT show in either the V6 or HW arrays BECAUSE in the V6, both dice rotate thru 2/5 arrays, so NEITHER two is available for the six/two eight. Likewise in the HW, since both dice rotate thru 1/6 arrays, NEITHER six is available.

    C'mon man, YOU are the guy telling me there's only 36 outcomes and 16 of these are on-axis, 20 off. You have proclaimed this as "gospel", but it simply is NOT the way things are.
     
    #20
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