DI Setting- 2 approaches

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    DI failure often is a self fulfilling prophecy.They begin with a PL bet with 5 times odds and 2 large bets on your perceived 2 best numbers.Now if you start hitting them no problem but what happens when best laid plans go wrong? Usually a bankroll death spiral and before you can even think about it you are in a deep hole.
    The other approach which I use on inside numbers is a PL bet with minimal odds and taking a hit and immediately regress putting myself in a no lose situation.The " Top & Gargoil I believe will take 3-4 hits and then regressing- another great option.Yet the majority of DI do not use this because they are after a big score.
    IfI am betting the 4&10 I will take a couple same bet hits putting me in a plus position.Nothing wrong playing conservatively.Those 30-40 roll hands will occur less than 80% of the time.The battle must be won on rolls 6-14.
     
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  2. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I would not necessarily have an issue with a 3-4 hits and regress approach...but that is generally encompassing across the board bets. While I have seen this play before MANY, MANY times...I do not have fingers and toes left for the times I've counted all 6 bets get wiped out...if not on an after point established roll, then the next one. Then...they have a mountain to climb JUST to get back even. Early 7's (and they will happen)..." Mine eyes have seen...."

    Experience, enough times watching the game and seeing this across the board strategy ad neasuem...I've seen these guys walk away busted a helluva lot more times than cashing out with extra.

    When it works, yes...good stuff. You're getting paid on every number and you can accumulate pretty fast on a nice run. One look when I arrive and see the "count"...I know right away among the regulars who is having a good or bad day.

    As one gentleman calls me "last man standing" because of my betting style...he's not wrong.

    I have real, eyewitness, experience, seeing with my own eyes this approach to play...I can't put a number on the times it's worked or hasn't---but it is definitely on the "hasn't worked" side.

    I'm skeptical, highly, highly skeptical anyone can make this betting approach work effectively Time and again. My 2 cents. Way too much at risk. 2 hits and regress or down on the 6-8 has less risk. A lot less. Depending on if you hit those 2 numbers hard ($$$) with your wagering...1 hit and regress.

    To each his own.

    Now, if tdb or those who align with him feels this posting of mine (in the DI forum) makes him miserable here or this post is a "miserable contribution"....please feel free to chime in.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
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  3. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    I did not say bet across though some have had success I will give you an example playing at a $10 table.Point is 6- I will go with $10 odds.Place the 8 for $24.Say the 8 hits- regress to $12-up $16 on that #.Next hit same bet or up a unit to $18.Next go to $30.
     
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  4. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I know that. I DO believe Gargoil does though...play across the board.

    No issue with your strategy. 6-8 in any manner works for me. Regress or progress.
     
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  5. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Let me give you another example.Yes short hands can kill you.That night that I had that 5 point 42 roll on my fourth hand I was even at that point.First hand hit a 6 and regressed- 7 followed.Next 2 hands hit the point then 7 out later.Not wunning- not losing BUT not in a hole.So when that hand game- all profit not filling in a hole.
     
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  6. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I think KKJ said it best...something to the effect of more than 1 bet out there, you've got too much at risk to the 7.

    Now, granted...he may have no winner on 12-15 rolls.

    But pass line/odds...strictly a numbers games now (HA and expected). He's making the best bet.

    There is no right or wrong strategy and ALL of them depend......on.....your.....NUMBER actually hitting.

    Gambling, Dave. Gambling.

    There are a million and 1 progression and regression plays. Anyone declaring one "better" than the other..if he's not using math to back up his argument---he's got no basis to say that. Personal opinion doesn't allow us to use terms like "better" (other than personal decision, i.e. Vanilla/chocolate).

    Now, bankroll and betting and win goals tied to strategy? Different animal. There are several keen witted math guys here that can formulate strategies based on goals. I'm not one of them.
     
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  7. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Yes your math is correct.I have to balance winning and keeping my BR intact if I get off slowly.Has been working so not changing.Others like you know who( Hunt- Xanax kid)have some decisions to make.Maybe that IS problem too many changes lol
     
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  8. HornHiYo, Nov 6, 2016

    HornHiYo

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    Actually the moment you place your bets you are in a losing situation. The chances a seven will show are the same with each and every roll of the dice.
    Taking money off the table after a certain number of rolls only reduces the amount of money at risk, but your remaining bets remain in a losing situation.
    Also, there are many more than two approaches.
     
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  9. gargoil, Nov 6, 2016

    gargoil

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    Merriam Webster describes ATTITUDE as:
    1- The way you think or feel about someone or something
    2- A feeling or way of thinking that affects a person's behavior.
    3- A mental position with regard to a fact or state
    4- A feeling or emotion with regard to a fact or state

    For some of you here, I hope you do not approach life in the same attitude you approach the tables (negative expectation, when you play you are in a losing situation, etc.). Then again maybe that's why some of you do not understand the concept of winning. Your statements says a lot.
     
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  10. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Hornhiyo
    Yes more approaches and your money is always at risk.But in taking money off the table and the hand ends then you at least have some profit locked up.
     
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  11. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

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    Gargoil
    Yes I never experienced that thinking on Heavy' s board, JP' s and MP' s site.That is until I came here and met the players who bow at the altar of the math often meaning " I will lose"
     
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  12. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Please, we've heard this crap a 1,000 times. NO ONE goes with intent or expectation to lose...so they lose. We are ALL wanting, trying to win. This is another statement of "superiority" ("you do not understand the concept of winning") that your attitude will affect dice outcomes. It's your opinion. Nothing more. I repeat---NO ONE goes to lose.

    Craps is not a game of skill. Period. Are there aspects of betting and bankroll that require skill (knowledge, deduction, really) to manage your play? Sure...but there's no physical skill in that.

    This isn't golf or tennis or horseshoes where one refines their skill thru physical practice and more play. The ULTIMATE test out there to show some (any) physical skill in craps...the bohunk challenge. Not one of them has even considered stepping up to EVEN try it. You're not proving or disproving anything on dice influence....but like a golfer who says he's a 5 handicap---lets go out on the course a few times and see the 77 (+ or -) over 18 holes.

    Let's go out and see "expectation" increase or decrease based on your call number(s)

    What does that tell me about skill that none will step up? Fucking lots.
    Logistics aside or otherwise. Hell, if someone said "yeah, I'll step up".....OK, fine. Then made an argument that the logistics of tossing 500 or 1,000 times was the ultimate problem. OK. Granted. They saw that issue. But, they just said no, I won't accept....then came up with the logistics questions later after Tomp mentioned It.

    No casino even takes the time or energy to acknowledge its a skill based game or there are skilled players out there. 150+ years later.

    Then we have some DI players here who do ZERO mathematical computations to even determine if they have skewed expected results...WTF? That's the equivalent of an advantage blackjack player who doesn't count cards? Really? LOL. You can do anything you want...but my eyebrow is more than raised.

    DI is fun. Beyond that..delusion. Fun delusion, but that's fine. It's all about having some fun while we play.

    Now..if there are any TRUE DI out there. They are NOT on any forum pounding their fist. Those guys I take no issue with. They might in fact be DI's. How's that for a contradiction?;)
     
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  13. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Your argument is all over the place Whether someone comes on here saying that DI has worked for them or had kept quiet and won there is no difference.You have not disproved DI.By picking an argument with Gargoil ( who is net positive) with no firm foundation your argument will fail.We can tell if it works by our results - do not need calculations on expected edge Just go out and do it.
     
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  14. gargoil, Nov 6, 2016

    gargoil

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    TDV proving again why he is the forum bully. He says he doesn't want to drive anyone away from the forum but will post a bunch of know nothing burgers. If no one goes with the intent or expectation to lose then why do you keep referring to it as a negative expectation game?

    No where in my post do I mention skill or the fact that DI can call out numbers before they roll. But yet you skew the conversation every time towards your stupid challenge that proves nothing and you keep talking about tennis and golf. I am a true DI and I am not pounding my fist on anything. You however are pounding your fist with every post you make.
     
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  15. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Jeez, Dave..it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove it doesn't work (can't prove a negative).

    It is OTOH....possible to PROVE it does exist. That is up to you. Controlled study would suffice. Bohunk would give some credence. You guys run from that.

    By the way...I'm only stating my opinion.

    LOL...OK, just go do. No verification. If you win your session....it's DI.

    If not and you lose?

    DI didn't work.
     
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  16. KokomoJoe4, Nov 6, 2016

    KokomoJoe4

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    C'mon guys, this is getting worse than it should. We can and should disagree on the matter of influence.

    We should not however introduce ambiguity where there is none.

    Everyone goes to the table hoping to win. The math of the game calculates negative expectation for EVERY bet on the table except one, odds - unfortunately not a wager which can stand on its own, it MUST be tied to another wager which is negative expectation.

    This is gambling. We might win and we might lose. Mathematical expectation favors losing, for the reason highlighted above.

    Things that can and do have an influence on our results include method of play, luck of the outcome and influence imparted on the dice by the shooter. No one disputes the first two, and we can agree to disagree on point three.
     
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  17. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Because IT IS a negative expectation game. We need luck, positive variance to win. That's no secret.
    Right...just equating the idea that attitude prevails in a game of chance is a false premise. Same as I would say when the ref flips the coin before today's game...does the guy with the positive attitude win the flip more? It's a nice thought...but no basis other than voodoo.
    Without any tracking of data rolls---truly tracking...you have no clue whether you are a DI or just lucky.

    You can call yourself anything you like. DI. Dice controller. Dice manipulator. It's a self assigned title.
     
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  18. TDVegas, Nov 6, 2016

    TDVegas

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    Right. Spot on. Not sure what these guys are complaining about. We all impart influence. We are all dice influencers in that we influence a result..Doing it in an expected result? No.
     
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  19. James Hall, Nov 6, 2016

    James Hall

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    gargoil there are several on this forum with the same mindset as demonstrated in the post you responded to
    they refer to craps as negative expectation because the results are generally negative
    Their betting strategies are based on the theory of not losing or at least losing less
    they have a hard time understanding that winning is a process not an event
    they have no strategy to speak of other than limit bets and hope for the best
    because they discount the idea of skill that leaves but one avenue to rely upon , their "BETTING STRATEGY"
    if you read their posts you will see that their betting strategies leave a bit to be desired
    because their is in their mind no skill they have nothing to practice to increase their effectiveness
    after the length of time these folks played the game they are as GOOD AS THEY WILL EVER BE
    they will always get the results they are getting now

    and of course some of them keep hollering about the "BUTT HUMP CHALLENGE"
    Instead of trying to learn something useful that could help they want to deny everything that works for the people who
    put in the TIME , EFFORT AND ENERGY
    Many of them are just lost and a lost cause
    no amount of effort to help will help , it is simply a waste of time
    You have to wonder why they even play
    and some of these guys have played 20 years and some even longer
     
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  20. Dave G Ct, Nov 6, 2016

    Dave G Ct

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    You can present your case but saying DI is delusional - that is just your opinion and of course not fact.Your challenge is not getting any traction.
     
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