Craps throwing station

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Jeff P, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. TDVegas, Feb 22, 2018

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    That tells us you are rolling "few'er" than expectation dictates. Put the money to BETTER use on the numbers you hit more frequently.

    Don't give me this double talk "I didn't say I never roll 4's and 10's".....I didn't say you did. YOU said you roll very few. Well, THIS indicates that you roll LESS of them than random dictates. Again, put the money to better use on the numbers you do hit.

    And just where, pray tell....in Vegas, on the strip, are you getting 2 to 1 payouts (no house edge) on a $5 bet on the 4 and 10??
     
    #81
  2. tabletop123, Feb 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    My Ass hurts! Time for another Seniors afternoon Nap!
     
    #82
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  3. tabletop123, Feb 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    He's buying the 4 & 10 for $5.......on his home table! LMAO!
     
    #83
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  4. von duck, Feb 22, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    What do ou mean by THIS, TD? :D
     
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  5. James Hall, Feb 22, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Top
    you say I am trying so very hard to understand , the reason you don't is because you have not committed yourself
    one way or the other , you want to agree , you said that yourself , but you can't
    It's simply a matter of commitment , make a decision and make that decision work .
    If you believe that influence doesn't work go with that and do the very best you can playing a random game
    If you believe in slight influence , I can tell you slight won't hack it you will still be as , "TEDIOUS VEGAS' puts it
    winning and losing , and face the facts winning and losing is just another way of saying losing

    One thing I learned many years ago that applies as much to craps as it does anything else in the world
    If I can do anything , "A LITTLE BIT / slightly I can do even more so by more study and more practice
    In other words if I can do it a little bit I can learn to do it a lot

    "TEDIOUS VEGAS" talks an awful lot about , COMMON SENSE most things and most accomplishments in life defy common sense
    most great things require , UNCOMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS
    People who succeed above the common do so because they want to and they commit to do so
    I would suggest , COMMIT one way or the other , decide you can make it work or decide you can't
    "TEDIOUS VEGAS" rational is much much easier to believe , to be random you have to do absolutely nothing
    just do exactly as he says he does pick em up and sling em
    What I do takes a tremendous investment of time , effort and energy , it works for me
    Some of the Mesa guys have bought craps tables for three and four thousand dollars and spent no money out of pocket
    Hard to believe and yet true
    It's pretty simple , decide you can or decide you can't
    I really do wish you well , you seem like a nice enough guy
     
    #85
  6. Mssthis1, Feb 22, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Give him a break TD. I don't know what a horn high ace deuce pays because I never make that bet. Since he has money sleeping on numbers he rarely tosses it's understandable that he doesn't know what a $5, 4 or 10 pays.
     
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  7. James Hall, Feb 22, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Fewer yes
    Some of the bets I make , I use as force multipliers , take full advantage of any box number that hits
    I know that many betting strategies are hard for someone who limits himself to 2 bets to understand
    You don't say a lot of things but you imply ,
    You apply a lot of what you have learned from reading Saul Alinski to your tactics here
    You have a very devious desire to convince people that they can't do what they are doing
    you seem to get some twisted thrill out of that
    It won't work on me , I have been doing this far to long for you to have any negative impact on me
     
    #87
  8. James Hall, Feb 22, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Oh but I do , and I have read your posts so I know you are far from being an authority on the subject
     
    #88
  9. tabletop123, Feb 22, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Well I commit with everything that I do. ESPECIALLY when money is involved. You talk a very good game, but what you fail to acknowledge is that influence is ever so slight. Doesn't matter what your skill level is....youre STILL basically random.

    Commitment won't give you a long term SRR of 7,8, 9, etc. If you or anyone else was tossing THOSE SRR's in the Casinos.....they'd be either 86'd, rich, or both!

    I really don't think you understand how difficult it would be to maintain a LONG TERM SRR of even 6.5! Do you realize that even a lowly 6.5 is the keys to the vault?

    It's really comical that when some DI's tell the truth ( that it's mostly random), it's the same sad story by the Die-hard Di's....such as... no confidence, improperly trained, etc.

    Now, I have not witnessed Rick, Frank, Dominator, Heavy, Little Joe Green, or any other so-called stellar shooters, but I do know that they loose, have bad sessions just like everyone else.

    Now, I HAVE seen G toss the dice, & he's a Damn good shooter, but GUESS WHAT? I've seen him toss a few Bricks too.
    Ya simply cannot make Dice Influencing for more than what it is.....mostly random with a tad of influence sprinkled in!

    The highest level of Dice Influencing would be someone that makes his living SOLELY from influencing the dice.

    NO SUCH PERSON EXISTS!

    Clarification.......I have NOT witnessed such a person, & I don't think such a person/s exist in Mesa either!
     
    #89
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  10. tabletop123, Feb 22, 2018

    tabletop123

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    One thing that I know for a FACT! Mssthis plays much more frequently than you, or I. I also know that Mssthis is a very good shooter, UNLESS (G) lied about what he witnessed, or just can't see worth a shit.....AND THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!
    Now, what's really strange is that the guys that are known to "catch a gear" at the tables, ie G, Rick, Mssthis, Frank, Demango....all have roughly the same opinion of Dice Influencing as I do!

    No chest thumping, Grandiose delusion, etc. Simply a few guys that believe they have a slight edge AT TIMES, & bet accordingly.

    None of the "Balls to the walls" thingy.

    James you say that you have "been at it since 1966, & was trained by none other than "Sydney the Kidney"!

    So, after 52 years of Dice Influencing...what is YOUR SRR? With 52 years of firm commitment, & dedication...I would surmise it's hovering around 9, 10,?....Or is it just like everyone else's? Lol
     
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  11. Mssthis1, Feb 22, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    I'm just here to learn. Today I learned that pulling your money off a number that has hit twice and moving it to a different number is "taking what the dice are giving trend betting"
     
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  12. James Hall, Feb 22, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Well then you spent a day that afforded some value , learning is important , even more so than many things we do in our everyday life
     
    #92
  13. TDVegas, Feb 22, 2018

    TDVegas

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    Ya!

    My only kick in on DI....is that with a very slight edge----"playing craps to win" would be a grind play, IMO and not a James Hall deal of "when I feel like playing"...."every once in a while"...etc.

    They are called poker "grinders" for a reason. It's a low risk, slight edge play utilizing a daily grind to make a living...be profitable, make bank...small but frequent wins. Then get off the table. I would apply the same logic to craps AP play.

    James plays like a tourist. Once in a blue moon arrives in Vegas...splashes chips over just about every conceivable combination and hopes to see some longer than expected rolls.

    This isn't the play of a professional, a grinder. He's a tourist player, in town on heavy traffic weekends, looking for fun, plays on crowded tables, cheers with the others, maybe high fives a few guys who just flew in from out of town who hit a hard 8. Just like him. Has fun, enjoys himself, has action on every roll.....but we are not talking about a serious player here in terms of frequency or grind.

    He says he doesn't need to play regularly. Well, no one needs to play regularly....but with an advantage over the game (any game)---they generally DO play regularly. Why not? It's money?
    This screams action junkie, not serious advantage player.
     
    #93
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  14. Mssthis1, Feb 22, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    He's still stuck in 1966 as far as craps and communication in public while both have evolved immensely the past 50 years leaving him lost in the dust cloud.

    Don't worry about me Top. I only answer to the wife and myself in that order lol. Like I always used to tell them at work. "You can't hurt my feelings, I don't have any." ;)
     
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  15. Onautopilot, Feb 22, 2018

    Onautopilot

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    They exist in "make believe", just ask the Mesa "make believe" crew. :)
     
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  16. Edward-ky, Feb 22, 2018

    Edward-ky

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    Welcome to the group of insiders. I guess that is the club if you use any kindof common sense and rational thinking.
     
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  17. tabletop123, Feb 22, 2018

    tabletop123

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    Truth be told...the SMART Di's dread the "Grind" play. Why? Simply, because IF YOU DO have a slight advantage.... "Time "will quickly chip away at your advantage.
    To elaborate further.....most hands will be losers, & the Dice Influencer is looking for that one or two hands that puts them in the black & they quickly exit.
    Unfortunately, sometimes that ONE hand never comes & ya have to "pack it up" before you lose your bankroll.
    Hmmmmmm.....sounds Very similar to what the Random Rollers do......YEP, that is correct! Lol

    All of this "I step up to the table, toss a 20 roll hand & head to the Cashiers cage is pure bullshit.
    Sometimes the only thing Ya toss is a fu**king BRICK!

    You're on the right track, TD, but Grind Play for the talented shooter means longer & longer table time which =BANKROLL EVAPORATION!
    I have a 14 ft table in the Garage & I consider myself a decent Mechanical tosser.
    Any Di that wants to toss, & grind on my table for 1-2 hours of consecutive shooting......BRING IT ON.......I have enough bankroll to book ALL of your bets.

    Only stipulation is that ya gotta stand there, & grind with that fabulous toss of yours for a minimum of an hour.
    TELL ME HOW YA LIKE IT IN THE END!
     
    #97
  18. tabletop123, Feb 22, 2018

    tabletop123

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    Like I told G....I absolutely love trying to influence the dice but I ain't gonna bullshit people telling them...ya just need to train, learn, find someone that can teach you, study, practice, & then...it's all gravy, baby!

    Only problem is that the teachers ain't doing much of anything either!

    Dice Influencing ain't....find some "Grandmaster:, " Expert", that knows what he/she is doing & learn from them. AINT HAPPENING!

    How about this....The GrandMasters need to venture out on a searching expedition too. They could ALSO use a little help.
     
    #98
  19. TDVegas, Feb 22, 2018

    TDVegas

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    Well, not really. An advantage is an advantage. That is EXACTLY what the casino utilizes...a small edge and grind away to win....multiplied by 1000's of players. It is the basis for their existence. They don't care about time. They are open 24/7. They certainly also LOVE the fire bet and prop bettors. But, an edge, however slight is still an edge. They grind down those players. Only in this case..the player has the edge, however small. Time should not matter unless skills deteriorate over play and you lose the advantage.
    That would apply ONLY if they lose their advantage. Then they are nothing but a randie thinking they are a DI. Then they need variance to win.

    I know zero (was it Sgt. Schultz "I know nuthing"?) about the mechanics of DI. The toss, the set, what set for this or that number....but it does not take a DI to understand how to capitalize on whatever advantage is gleaned. Such so, you will never see me offer ugatz on dice influence specifics. Beyond that, I have seen SO many diametrically opposed opinions on what works and what doesn't from those claiming expertise...that I must question the word "expert" in this case. Is it not armchair?
     
    #99
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  20. Edward-ky, Feb 22, 2018

    Edward-ky

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    James reminds me of the hitchhiker that was picked up in theres something about mary. He was telling stiller that he has come up with 7 min abs workout since it is better then8 min abs cause it saves you that time. Stiller says what if someone comes up with 6 min abs and his response now thats just stupid.
     
    #100