Craps- Primer for Professionals

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by SevenOut, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. SevenOut, Dec 12, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I have never heard or encountered a crooked or gaffed Craps Table.
    I have yet to encounter 'loaded dice' at a Craps Table.
    I have known Craps Professionals... the Craps Table's Dealers.
    I have yet to encounter a Craps Professional, who made income as a Career, shooting Craps.

    Craps Professionals exist. "Engaged in a Profession/Skill. One's Trade or Profession."

    They are the Dealers at a Craps Table. They are paid by the Casino for their skill, dealing Craps. They may be on Salary or part time by the hour.

    I have met Craps Professionals who make an income by teaching a skill, Dice Control, Dice Setting.

    I have not met a Craps Professional that makes an income, actually playing Craps against the True Craps Professionals, the Craps Dealers and Casino.

    I have met the majority of Craps Players, who lose more often, than win.
    I have met, few, Craps Players who may in the short run, have a net win in the short run.
    I have never met a Craps Player, who frequents Craps Tables regularly, using the table's winnings as bankroll. Ever.

    Maybe I STUDY too many live Craps Games. Not when they are winning, but while the player's are losing. Possibly bad timing on my part. Possibly bad timing on the players, while I am watching.

    Can a Pass Line game Professional, who is experiencing a losing streak, play the Don't Pass game and win? Of course not. Eventually the Pass and Don't Pass come to a conclusion, sooner, than later.

    Why do most Players wager on the Pass side of Craps. Obvious. They are paid more for the risk. I have yet to find a Professional who Shoots to Win by, losing and playing the Don't Pass side of the game. Human nature does not want to wager MORE, to win LESS.

    A true Craps Player develops a System of Wagering. Pass or Don't Pass. I have yet to find a Dice Setter, set the dice for a four or ten for point, and be wagering on the DON'T PASS... then set for a SEVEN OUT.

    If all of this does not make any sense... you have been given the Primer. The rest of your time should be spent on understanding that Craps cannot be an income producing profession by actually playing. When you understand the previous statements... Craps will more enjoyable if you win or lose. You will understand the most important point, to be made in your future.

    Why?
     
    #1
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  2. $nakeEye$, Dec 12, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    AHA-

    A MOST enlightening post !

    The ONLY way to WIN at CRAPS is to " Deal the Game " !

    For a measly less than Min Wage Stipend -

    Depending on Tokes to enhance that Poverty level pay scale !


    I took a Black Jack course back in the 80's -

    It was given by a FORMER PIT BOSS who overlooked the Black jack games !


    When he went to the OTHER SIDE of the table -

    He was barred World Wide due to his expertise at the game !


    WHAT I am saying here is simply thus :

    Because one knows HOW TO DEAL the game -

    DOES NOT mean one knows ONE KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME !

    A HUGE DIFFERENCE between the TWO !


    $...eE..$
     
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  3. Liman

    Liman Member

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    there is a trick to being able to win whenever you want.......perhaps you don't know it,

    buy a big cowboy hat, and buy a Cessna, there it is, you will now beat the casinos anytime you want.
     
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  4. KokomoJoe4, Dec 13, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    At least these professionals are net positive at the table!
     
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  5. KokomoJoe4, Dec 13, 2017

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Speak with DeMango about this.

    Here is a guy who believes in DI and who tabulates results from his set/shot at specific tables/table locations.

    I guarantee you that if his results show him to be producing more than the expected number of sevens, he will either be laying a number or playing the DO NOT.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  6. Mssthis1, Dec 13, 2017

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    The day you run into someone who lays a point for the largest amount he can and stay under 10k total, tosses a seven, colors out and goes his merry way, you have met a true professional craps player and dice controller.

    Off topic> Have you visited the Skyline casino/hotel in Henderson? if you have, opinions? Drove by there several times, haven't stopped yet.
     
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  7. eagleeye2, Dec 13, 2017

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    SevenOut,

    Assuming you believe your first two items, as listed above, the rest of your post falls in place!

    But, I 100% disagree & have encountered ""Biased Dice"" a significant number of times.

    Yes, one can not be a winner against ""Biased Dice"" employing normal Craps Tactics, thus you only see LOOSERS!

    That is why I ""Count Down a Tables DICE"" before playing there.

    eagleeye2
     
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  8. James Hall, Dec 13, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Bonanza
     
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  9. $nakeEye$, Dec 13, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    One six deck hand shuffled $5 min 3-2 Black Jack Game - from Thurs thru Sunday from 5 PM till about 10 or so - depending on the interest !

    Otherwise predominately slots !

    $...eE..$
     
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  10. von duck, Dec 14, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    The plane was a Beachcraft Bonanza.:confused: :)
     
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  11. von duck, Dec 14, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Don't forget his ATS bet.:)
     
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  12. von duck, Dec 14, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    There is no way you would know, for sure any of the statements in your first paragraph. How could you possibly know if you've encountered loaded dice, and how could you know if you've encountered a craps professional. You would also have no way of knowing what any dice setter was setting the dice for. Just another "Learn to Lose and Like It" post. Strange that there was little or no fanfare when you returned? I think "Learn to win or quit" makes a lot more sense. :)
     
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  13. $nakeEye$, Dec 14, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    von duck -

    OR shall I say " VD " - o_O

    You MUST realize that 7-out sold gambling artifacts / paraphernalia - knows dealers -etc.

    SO in THAT vein - HE is an EXPERT at the game !

    Just ask HIM - HE'LL tell you so ! :rolleyes:

    OR - Double check with OAP -

    HE also DEALT the game -

    Another EXPERT !


    They are UNDISPUTED EXPERTS at the game -

    FROM the DEALER'S SIDE of the TABLE -

    NOT the PLAYER'S SIDE ! ;)

    $...eE..$
     
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  14. SevenOut, Dec 14, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Expert: Someone from out of town, carrying a brief case.

    I am not an expert. John Scarne is an expert.

    Amateurs overwhelm this Forum.

    Those who watch videos and toss dice at an imaginary Craps Table. They consider themselves the Experts and dole out criticism and advice, for a price.

    It is discouraging to anyone who understands Craps, that the phonies out number those who, do want to help other players.
     
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  15. SevenOut, Dec 14, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    ******

    OK... you made this personal. I hope OAP will step in as well.

    I had a downtown property, zone for commercial business.
    I paid taxes on this property.
    I had seven part time employees. Payroll, withheld taxes.
    I had a City Business License.
    I paid taxes on the property and collected Sales Taxes for the State, County and City.
    My employees all were asked to deal for various Casinos entering the Kansas City market.
    Our customers were hard core Craps Players and Students, trained by former dealers and dealers in training.

    Now these Phonies operating on this Forum:

    They operate out of their home or shack. They have no business license. They pay no taxes to the State, County or City. They file no Income Tax returns. They are a Gaming Operation dealing across State Lines. They are a Pay for Play operation and no doubt the Justice Department requires they report to them. (I did as we dealt in antique slot machines, as well. Gaming equipment was purchased through licensed dealers and sold through licensed dealers, when a licensed Casino wanted to purchase from me.)

    These phonies no doubt live in a HOA neighborhood in the Las Vegas area, and many other places, like the Golden Touch in my HOA neighborhood, violating the HOA rules of operating a business that brings traffic into the neighborhood... a violation where fines can be assessed if a complaint of another resident be made.

    If you have been scammed by any of these 'phonies' representing themselves as a legal business, paying taxes, licensed, permitted to operate... SUE THEM.

    They can easily be discovered and located. When the decent members of this Forum who want to help and answer questions at no cost are insulted by these fakes and low class frauds... go after them. SUE THEM if they do not display a Business License at the place of operation. They must be zoned and permitted to operate a business in a non commercial zone neighborhood.

    Their attorney will advise they refund to you every dime, as it will be cheaper.

    Avoiding paying TAXES is a crime. If they are 'professional gamblers' they file taxes as a professional and take deductions.

    My business was TAXED to the point that the employees and the taxing authorities took the majority of any profits. The sales of supplies and equipment were my profitable parts of the business.

    To have some low life criticize me has some nerve. I have met some of these guys. See my photo. I may not look dignified, but I am honest.
     
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  16. SevenOut, Dec 14, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    One last comment about Casino Dealers.

    I hope some of you when you see these phonies who speak of Craps Dealers as low life minimum wage earners... point them out to the Box Man. Make a copy of 'whats his name' email, saying such. They... will take care of it from there.

    Dealers have to pass more security checks that these phony DI instructors, who cannot even spell words with more than six letters, correctly. I can print 'certificates of competency' faster than I could fill them out.

    The majority, if not ALL of these phony individuals talk like a millionaire, but play like paupers.

    There is one among this DI crowd that has his own website. It is a hell of a lot of work. He seems to be on the outs... with the frauds, phony dice experts and current DI Crowd. Good. That is positive and tells me a lot. I expect to be further on the 'outs' with this group. I look forward to the challenge and will take it where it leads me to go.

    I do suggest that if any of you have been mislead to spend money to become proficient at anything that cannot be proven... fight back.

    If you do not fight back... you are, what we termed in Viet Nam era Army... a PUSSY.
     
    #16
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  17. TDVegas, Dec 14, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    "Win at craps"....

    I can do that. My last 3 sessions in fact. Is that the benchmark for "win at craps" and or declaring oneself a "professional" or "skilled" or low and behold "not a peon chunker"...??? and then able to offer my expertise to any and all...for a price OR not.

    Laughable.

    Did I know it was going to happen?
    Does anyone know prior?

    Of course not...excusing those who buy in with their "enormous" $42. Or those living out of their vehicle. Or those who came here to "win" but now hold a job that takes them away from this profitable craft?

    Can anyone utilize the craps table for income or an expectation to pad the bank account? My argument has been no...no way.

    Can someone win? Sure
    Win big? Sure

    The more you keep going back to this "well" we call craps....reality will soon set in.

    Those deluded...like the resident cowboy? Well, they really don't play much at all. So, it's all just talk regardless. He plays for fun. With such infrequent play, that can be the ONLY rational explanation. Serious, money players who can generate cash would scoff at playing "once in a blue moon" or living 5+ hours from their "place of business."

    I see little difference between those offering "help" for a price and those offering "help" for free beyond the exchange of cash. The key word is "help". I can take a 12 year old and in a matter of a hour have him up and running and playing AS GOOD (or better/worse) as the 50 year craps legend who has logged a billion hours of table time.

    This game is not rocket science. There are no nuances to exploit. There is no crew with "inside knowledge". 2 dice, toss, bounce. Older than Monopoly.

    Craps experts (on the skill, beat the game front) are simply self "certified"....or "certified" by a clique of like minded people.

    Those who can actually do....IF it's happening aren't here OR ANYWHERE squawking about it.
     
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  18. von duck, Dec 14, 2017

    von duck

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    They all sound sound like a bunch of come bettors to me, and we all know what that bet does, SUCKS! ! !:) I think the VD abbreviation, is a better fit for TDV. And OAP will "like" it. :D
     
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  19. SevenOut, Dec 14, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I fit the definition as a Professional.

    I earned income operating the Gameroom Casino in Missouri. I filed taxes and paid taxes to the Federal Government, State Government, County and City Government. I donated to our Downtown Main Street organization that promoted the downtown district to attract business and the public.

    Never did I have a Dice Setter or AKA apply, as they did not EXIST. This was just before Missouri legalized Riverboat Gambling. This did not come into being until AFTER the expansion of gaming in the USA began.

    I would have believed that there were drifters, con men and hustlers previous to this expansion as Craps is an old game. But no. What changed? The game or .... the fast buck crowd's ambitions with an expanded market of easy money from novice gamblers.
     
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  20. SevenOut, Dec 14, 2017

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    www.crapspit.org/golden-touch-craps-review

    Their site is set up professional like the Craps Forum. This particular study is very telling.

    As we use to say when you want to find out who the crooks are from the cooks... Follow the Money. Once you see where the money is going, you have found the source and proceed from there.
     
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