Cherokee Fire

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Fire thrower, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. TDVegas, Mar 21, 2018

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Yes, I know.
     
    #161
  2. James Hall, Mar 21, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    It's mostly Yankees here now
     
    #162
  3. James Hall, Mar 21, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Place bet you can pull it all and lose nothing , big advantage offered by the place
    Something to think about
     
    #163
  4. James Hall, Mar 21, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Yeah I forgot you know about the new house
     
    #164
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  5. wonko33, Mar 22, 2018

    wonko33

    wonko33 Member

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    maybe James should also open a Whiskey appreciation club in one of those dry counties, fits his MO
     
    #165
  6. wonko33, Mar 22, 2018

    wonko33

    wonko33 Member

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    IMO the payout is too low to lay the last number on an ATS, like Liman says you miss a big chunk of your payout if you do. On the 6th point of the fire bet the 1000/1 payouts is big enough to still get a big win if you lay against it considering you still get the fire-5 payout.

    I don't like hedging , especially if the bets are mutually exclusive (if one wins the other has to lose and vice versa) - the only hedge I like is laying a 4 or 10 to protect my come out on DP DC bets.
     
    #166
  7. random_roller, Mar 22, 2018

    random_roller

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    Setting aside the issue of personal preference on Lay bets, it really depends upon what amount is wagered on the ATS bets.

    At Rivers Casino, the maximum bet on the ATS bets is $100 per bet. So if I had $100 across on the ATS -- which admittedly I have yet to attempt -- that would potentially be $17,500 on the All All and $3,400 on the All Tall (or All Small). IMO -- and I think you will agree -- those potential win amounts would easily support laying the lone remaining box number needed to complete the All All.

    Typically I'm at $10 to $25 on the All All when I'm the shooter (at Rivers), so at stake is $1,750 to $4,375 on the All All, plus an additional $340 to $850 for the other (unmade) end ATS bet. I can still get a decent size win (assuming the All All hits) even if I have a large Lay bet. If there are any winnings from the ATS bets, I consider them a bonus. For the ATS, there is no "fallback" position in the bet itself; the Lay bet (where possible) can provide ATS bettors with a softer landing in the event of a 7 out. BTW, I am much more likely to make a Lay bet (should the opportunity arise) early on in order to get a quick infusion of chips. At least 4 times last night 1 number was needed to complete the All All. Unfortunately, 3 times it was a 2 or 12 (can't lay either number) and the shooter rolled a 7 out each time without completing the All All. The 4th time -- actually the first one that happened -- I had just bought in on that shooter and had $5 across on the ATS. He quickly hit the All Small and then a little while later only an 8 was needed to complete the All Tall (and All All). I hurriedly made a Lay 8 bet for $312 so as not to slow down the shooter. The very next roll was a 7 out. Glad I locked up at least that $250 payout, as it helped put me up a good amount very early in the session. That's a great feeling.
     
    #167
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
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  8. random_roller, Mar 22, 2018

    random_roller

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    There might be some pent up demand for booze in those dry counties. Given the size of Texas, it might be a long drive to the closest bar for some who seek fire water.
     
    #168
  9. Mssthis1, Mar 22, 2018

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    Turn off the location services or GPS on your phone and that won't happen anymore. They still collect data on every web site you visit though.

    With all the wow wacker humongous wins and all the successful business ventures you brag of don't be surprised if the IRS contacts you for an audit.
     
    #169
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  10. James Hall, Mar 22, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    been there , don't ever get on that computer , it takes years to get off
    of course when people do returns on the short form they have little to worry about
    Some people have lost everything dealing with IRS , one of the most powerful
    organizations in the world
     
    #170
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  11. James Hall, Mar 22, 2018

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    The SIZE is right , (While driving from Florida to California about 1/3 of the trip is thru Texas)
     
    #171
  12. random_roller, Mar 22, 2018

    random_roller

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    The Lay bet works more efficiently on the 6,8,5,9 than on the 4,10. If a bettor wants to win $200 from a Lay Bet:

    4/10 = $410 ($400 Lay 4/10, $10 vig)
    5/9 = $310 ($300 Lay 5/9, $10 vig)
    6/8 = $250 ($240 Lay 6/8, $10 vig)

    Let's say bettor has $5 on the All All and $5 on the All Small. Assume the All Tall has already been made and only 1 box number is needed to hit the All Small (and thus complete the All All). If that box number is hit, that will result in an additional $1,045 ($875 + $170) in bonus money at a craps table that pays 175 to 1 and 34 to 1 on the All All and All Small bets respectively.

    If the last missing box number to complete the All Small & All All is a 4 and it hits before any 7 -- then a Lay 4 bet (to win $200) will reduce the All All / All Small winnings by $410, so net bonus is $635 ($875 + $170 - $410).

    If the last missing box number to complete the All Small & All All is a 5 and it hits before any 7 -- then a Lay 5 bet (to win $200) will reduce the All All / All Small winnings by $310, so net bonus is $735 ($875 + $170 - $310).

    If the last missing box number to complete the All Small & All All is a 6 and it hits before any 7 -- then a Lay 6 bet (to win $200) will reduce the All All / All Small winnings by $250, so net bonus is $795 ($875 + $170 - $250).

    If the last missing box number to complete the All Small & All All is not hit before a 7 is rolled, then the bettor gets $0 in bonus money for the losing All Small & All All wagers. But the bettor who made the Lay bet (to win $200) will receive that $200 payout (and the Lay bet funds minus vig) as a consolation prize. Note in the example the All Tall had already been made and those winning bets paid off/or would be paid at the end of the roll (varies by casino).

    Laying the 4 & 10 to hedge a potential ATS payoff is more expensive than other box numbers, but the trade-off is the 4 is a decided underdog (1:2) compared with the 7. Given the opportunity, I'd rather get something "guaranteed" (and settle for a lower payout if the All All is made) rather than risk getting nothing. Others may differ in their approach.
     
    #172
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
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  13. random_roller, Mar 22, 2018

    random_roller

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    Never entered my mind. You bet your money at the craps table the way you want and I bet my money as I choose to do -- the way it should be. It's all good.

    Hopefully that happens if (when) you're in town for a visit. 100x odds and $25K limit (both PL & odds) craps tables await at Rivers Casino. No bubble craps machines, though.
     
    #173
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  14. FredP

    FredP Member

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    #174

  15. FredP

    FredP Member

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    Good info, thanks.
     
    #175
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  16. Mssthis1, Mar 22, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    Hedging on the ATS could also allow you to make larger wagers on the ATS while playing within your bankroll. When just the small or tall hits you will win a larger amount.
     
    #176
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  17. James Hall, Mar 22, 2018

    James Hall

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    Great response
     
    #177
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  18. James Hall, Mar 22, 2018

    James Hall

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    There are , 'BEER GARDENS" on county lines , already been done
     
    #178
  19. random_roller, Mar 22, 2018

    random_roller

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    I don't like it when a ATS bet gets knocked off before it even had a chance to win, so I make sure whatever I'm betting on the ATS is covered against a come out roll 7 by some combination of PL, hop 7s and/or Any 7 bets.

    There are a few shooters who have made 1 end of the ATS on several occasions when I've been at the table, so I'll be more inclined to bet more than $5 across when they shoot. I also make larger ATS bets when I'm the shooter. Doesn't always work out, but I'm okay with the approach for now. Other then that, I generally keep wagers at $5 across (initially) max if I bet the ATS on another shooter. I want to minimize the additional amount (bonus bets) I have to "recover" per shooter and at $15 for $5 across, it's basically a extra hit on a place bet at a $10+ table or a Field Bet on a $15 table -- manageable and not a huge setback on a PSO (unless there are a few of them or short rolls in a row). Then there are those shooters who basically have only a snowball's chance in hell of making an ATS bet. When one of them is rolling the dice, I might just pick one of the ATS bets and throw a nickel on it or just say no. What the hell, it's gambling. .
     
    #179
  20. random_roller, Mar 22, 2018

    random_roller

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    I haven't done the cross-country drive on I-10. Perhaps someday.
     
    #180