The thing that ends up killing me at the craps table is my inability maintain concentration. Going through all the wordy posts a third time, I can only guess you are talking about the lay 9? Whats the payout versus a hop seven? I'm not disputing you is that was what you meant, just trying to understand. Personally I would prefer to lay 9 all day rather than have my fellow players thinking I'm jinxing them with hop seven after hop seven.