Casino gives The Shooter 5 DICE...Are they Loaded or are they Legit.?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by obie1, Nov 3, 2013.


  1. Heavy

    Heavy Member

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    I'm sorry to have to beat up on you here, but you're showing a basic misunderstanding of statistics and the law of large numbers here. Anything can and will happen over the next 36 rolls. The shooter may toss six 12's in a row for all you know. If that were to happen - it would not necessary show any evidence of bias. It would simply indicate that you need additional data. It's when you look at a LARGE number of rolls that you find that there is no significant deviation from the norm over the entire body of rolls.
     
    #61

  2. obie1

    obie1 Member

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    Heavy:

    I am aware that any combination of numbers could be thrown "in 36 rolls of the dice", including the example you mentioned: "...six 12s in a row...". That is why I stated (highlighted in bold lettering in the excerpt you quoted) that "... the 2 dice may be gaffed...". This by no means is saying that they are "gaffed", only that they may be "gaffed". Further on in my post I stated: "the only way to find out for sure is by testing them"... which is just not going to happen.

    That being said, I stand by post reply # 59 and can only surmise that you misunderstood what was stated... or perhaps it wasn't clear enough, either way, no big deal.

    I hope this "follow up" enlightens you and anyone else who may have misunderstood what was being conveyed.

    Obie1
     
    #62
  3. Harley, Jan 2, 2014

    Harley

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    $nakeEye$ .... For you and everyone coming to Las Vegas for the Adult Entertainment Expo starting January 15-18 and Heavy's Axis Power Craps Seminar, we are having a free Biased Dice presentation on January 15 featuring:

    - A Demonstration of unbalanced uncanceled real casino dice using casino equipment and

    - How unbalanced Heavy's Axis Power dice are using casino equipment (no bogus water test) and

    - free drinks, water, beer and Snickers.

    Also, as a fellow Axis Power Craps/Crapsfest Full Seminar Alum, we are opening our Las Vegas Craps Recreational Center to all Axis Power Craps/Crapsfest Alums that are in Las Vegas that weekend free of charge to tune-up your toss and warm-up before putting your $$ on a live Casino table ...... This is most recommended to dust off that jet lag or practice that new shot you just learned. You can do so on either of the following as we have both:

    - 14 foot table,

    - 12 foot table,

    - harder felt surface,

    - microfibre bouncey surface,

    - 7 rows of pyramids,

    - 5 rows of pyramids,

    - Fire Bet Layout,

    - All, Tall, Small Layout.

    .... And for those that want to sharpen their Roulette systems, we have both a European Single Zero wheel and Layout as well as the American Double Zero wheel.

    For details on any of the above and to reserve a practice session time, email to [email protected] or HarleyHorn @ gmail . com (with no spaces)
     
    #63
  4. superrick, Jan 4, 2014

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    So Harley Your going to show everybody what you found out about the bad, dice and let them practice or your two craps table sounds like a good deal to me!
     
    #64
  5. Harley, Jan 4, 2014

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    Yes - I said free ...... this is all about sharing information !!

    $nakeEye$ .... Heavy has deleted a post on his board referencing the above free presentation which is solely being put on in response to your request to see more information about Biased dice.

    Also, Heavy is going to be teaching his Axis Power Craps class at the worst place in town to toss dice .... the Las Vegas Dealer School has 2 tables:

    - 1 table with the incorrect table height and
    - 1 table with a waterproof card playing surface that is not duplicated in any Casino because you can not toss dice on it --- but it is good for learning how to Slide dice :bug:

    .... so since you will not be able to get quality practice time with what you are learning in Heavy's Axis Power Craps class, I have offered free table time on 2 tables with real Casino surfaces close to the Strip
     
    #65
  6. Harley, Jan 4, 2014

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    FYI -- We now have 3 registered for the free Biased Dice Demonstration ...
     
    #66
  7. Harley, Jan 9, 2014

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    FYI -- With 2 new RSVPs - 1 from California and 1 from Texas, we now have 6 registered for the free Biased Dice Demonstration ...
     
    #67
  8. Southern-Comfort, Jan 9, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    Question, and I'm not saying dice are or are not intentionally biased, but...
    if they are, and if the casinos are doing it to intentionally force sevens... wouldn't it be a wise move to just hop sevens on every roll?
     
    #68
  9. superrick, Jan 9, 2014

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    No, it's not like in the movies. Even with loaded dice your not going to get a seven on every roll of the dice!
     
    #69
  10. Southern-Comfort, Jan 9, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    who needs it on every roll? normal chances are a seven in six rolls.. one small advantage to the seven being rolled can be tremendous.. say one in 5 rolls at 35/3-1 odds?time to get rich!
     
    #70
  11. Southern-Comfort, Jan 9, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    Rather than edit and correct my post, I am admitting that I'm not a hop bettor. the odds are 35/1 on hardway hops only. theres no hardway in a seven so the correct odds would be 15/3-1. It does make a big difference, but if the dice are rigged to roll more sevens, still seems like a good bet.
     
    #71
  12. $nakeEye$, Jan 9, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Southern-Comfort -

    When setting the ' All 7 Set ' on the Come-Out cycle -

    The shooter is looking to achieve a 7 on EVERY roll -

    Then switch to a dice set to make his point number either quickly to re-establish the Come-Out cycle -

    OR - capitalize on box numbers that he/she is capable of hitting and make a profit BOTH on the 7 while hitting it and trying to avoid it !

    Craps is 2 games in 1 -

    The majority of people do NOT understand OR do not capitalize on the power of the Come Out cycle !

    $...eE..$

     
    #72
  13. Southern-Comfort, Jan 10, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    Sorry Snake, not talking about normal stuff here. Just saying that if the dice are rigged as much as they are purposrted to be, why not capitalize on it? If the casinos are really fixing the dice, punish them.
     
    #73
  14. $nakeEye$, Jan 10, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    S-C -

    I, for one , have serious reservations that the dice are ' rigged ' or whatever term one associates with that -

    Imbalanced, whatever -

    Harley posted a video(s) shot by AHigh where AHigh weighted the dice on the #6 pips with a piece of tape -

    I was unconvinced as I am still to this day - that those weighted dice produced more anomalies than normal -

    One , such as I , would suspect that more 1/1's would appear at the toss outcome than what was shown on the videos -

    Heavy on the 6 pips - should produce an inordinate amount of 1's on the outcome -

    THAT did NOT happen -

    ONLY ONE 1 - at that was towards the END of the lengthy video !

    I am NO fool - I do NOT take what is spoken as GOSPEL -

    If I may - review those series of videos regards ' weighted dice ' as produced by AHigh and espouted by Harley -

    Then YOU tell ME - what are YOUR observations regarding ' weighted dice ' !

    $...eE..$

     
    #74
  15. Harley, Jan 10, 2014

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    $nakeEye$ - I am guessing you never made Detective because your observation skills are terrible ... please review the video tapes again

    And if the Videos don't convince you, do your own tracking -- chart the table

    Wrong $nakeEye$ - you are not taking into account the effects of gravity and centrifugal force
     
    #75
  16. $nakeEye$, Jan 10, 2014

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    OKAY -

    The ' 6' pips are weighted by tape -

    The 6 should ' fall ' to the felt because of the weight -

    Like a lead sinker on a fishing line -

    BUT - THAT did NOT occur in the videos that I observed !

    And if not mistaken - as this was a few months ago - this was video either 12 or 13 or whatever -

    From a sequence of videos -

    Which I watched ALL of !

    I still stand by MY premise that the videos produced by AHigh -

    As the dice were weighted on the #6 pips - the 6 should have been the prevalent # that was on / touching the felt -

    With its' opposite - the #1 pip - the prevalent # showing upside -

    THIS DID NOT HAPPEN in ALL except the last toss -

    On the LAST toss - that was the FIRST appearance of a " 1 " on any and all toss results -

    I suggest that YOU re-evaluate YOUR take on these videos -

    The evidence is clear and undisputable -

    AHigh's weighted dice did NOT show any influence as to produce any more 1's than random -

    I do NOT know what is going on in Vegas -

    But, seriously you guys need to take a step a step back and do a reality check -

    You say one thing - and the video shows the exact opposite !

    $...eE..$
     
    #76
  17. Harley, Jan 10, 2014

    Harley

    Harley Member

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    #77
  18. Harley, Jan 10, 2014

    Harley

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    The majority of the unbalanced Dice videos were not produced by AHigh, including the taped die video you are talking about:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...y-not-to-play-the-darkside-with-bad-dice_news

    I guess what KogaNinja doesn't convey to you clearly is the fact that the imbalance will cause different results than the normal pyramid, but they will not cause 7-outs every roll just as Southern Comfort noted

    An example is Dicenator's Cruise ship Trip report on Heavy's board where he says:
    - What are the odds this can occur with balanced fair dice?
     
    #78
  19. Southern-Comfort, Jan 10, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    Wwell, I was only trying to make an observation that if the casinos are deliberately using rigged dice, there is a great way to expoit it. All I get following is nobody seems to think that the dice allegedly rigged to produce sevens is actually causing enough of the sevens to be used against the casino???
    Ok, I am not naïve, as SneakySnake seems to try to represent. (joking Snake, you love platying with names so...)
    Ok I have seen the mentioned youtube videos. First thing that comes to mind, the ONE die that Ahigh shows as not balanced was one of SunCruz's. He mentions it was a Paulson. Well, if it was one of the MANY batches of SunCruz dice sold on eBay after they went out of business (and since he had a bank of their chips I assume so), their was Paulson and Midwest dice. The Paulson's were used dice, the Midwest were brand new unused dice. I have a never unwrapped stick of the Midwest. I would be happy to send the stick to either Heavy or Snake to take to Vegas to be tested.
    And actually, more likely than not, its probably a very rare chance to test dice that have never been rolled. Although its very possible that many others on the forum also have a stick or several, there were many boxes sold.
    But back to my point. If the dice are rigged for the casino so that they produce an above average number of sevens, how in heck can you argue that hopping sevens is a bad idea? You won't hit every roll, but its not even odds, its not rocket science. The rigged dice believers should all be pretty wealthy by now.
    Actually I just looked on ebay.. theres a few stcks of suncruz Midwest for bid right now. Blue ones, mine are red. Temptimg....
     
    #79
  20. The Midnight Skulker, Jan 10, 2014

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Turns out there is a better way to exploit biased dice if the type of bias is known. See http://www.crapsforum.com/viewthread/2366/P75/#8498.
     
    #80