Casino gives The Shooter 5 DICE...Are they Loaded or are they Legit.?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by obie1, Nov 3, 2013.


  1. obie1

    obie1 Member

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    The Casino gives shooter 5 Dice, are they Loaded or are the legit?

    Several Casino's have recently been "CAUGHT" with illegitimate dice or other infractions, and; subsequently fined "peanuts", relatively speaking.

    How can craps players protect themselves against the possibility of playing with Casino Dice that may be skewed in favor of the Casino?

    What can The Casino's and Gaming Commission do: to “alleviate” the fear that many craps players have in their belief that the dice are “Loaded”.

    Keep in mind most people adhere to the belief: It seems that whenever: "Man and Money" are involved... There's invariably "Corruption". It's Human nature and Human nature is not going to change.

    Most craps players can't help but notice from time to time, how frequently certain numbers seem to appear repeatedly, especially The "7s". I've seen Casino sessions where the same paired "7s" were produced on just about every "7 out" thrown. It seems that if 3 dice are slightly "weighted" to produce a "6" and 2 dice are slightly weighted to produce a "1", then the house edge is exponentially increases against the "DO" player. Ditto for "5" & "2" and the "4" & "3". Of course this could be lucrative for the "DON'T" better, if he/she can survive the come-out roll.

    I believe there are two possible solutions The Gaming Commission or the Casinos can do to assure players that "The Dice Are Not Loaded".

    Just use a total of "2 Dice" placed in the game for each shooter to use instead of "5 Dice".

    Use 5 dice, but have each of the 5 Dice presented with a different transparent color: i.e. 1 Red, 1 Green, 1 Blue, 1 Purple, 1 amber.

    Any feedback as to what you have noticed or suggestions on how to keep the game honest?

    Any suggestions on how to get The Gaming Commission or The Casinos to implement one of the 2 safeguards?

    Obie1
     
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  2. rdg997s, Nov 3, 2013

    rdg997s

    rdg997s Member

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    I doubt that casinos load their dice. There are plenty of attorneys waiting to sue the casinos. I just wish someone would sue for second hand smoke. Plus it would not be a good scene if I were to choke someone out for ripping me off.
     
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  3. Dragline, Nov 3, 2013

    Dragline

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    Tell me when you find one. I want to go there and play the don't pass (or whatever numbers are favored). Don't worry about the come-out roll. Focus on the odds bet and take a couple DCs.
     
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  4. six shooter, Nov 3, 2013

    six shooter

    six shooter Member

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    I can't wait for a Casino employee to sue for second hand smoke and I think it is a matter of time.

    I vote for the 5 dice with different colors.
     
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  5. obie1

    obie1 Member

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    As far as observing what you think may be "loaded dice" at a Casino and hiring an attorney: Just try asking the Casino for the Dice... They just aren't going to give them to you and by the time your attorney gets a court order for "The Dice"... They are long gone.

    Which leads to another suggestion for The Gaming Commission and The Casino.

    We all know the crew has a "Locked" Tip box attached to each craps table, on the pit side of the table.

    Why not have a box for "The Gaming Commission": whereby if a player feels like the Dice are "Skewed" he/she can ask that those Dice be removed and placed in the box for "The Gaming Commission" to examine. The player making such a request shall of course have to pay a $10.00 (+ or -) fee to cover cost of The Casino putting new dice into the game.

    Any Feedback?

    Obie1
     
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  6. Grizzoola, Nov 4, 2013

    Grizzoola

    Grizzoola Member

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  7. Grizzoola, Nov 4, 2013

    Grizzoola

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    Give us some examples of casinos being "caught" w/ loaded dice. Which casinos? When? By who? Under what circumstances?
     
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  8. obie1

    obie1 Member

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    Grizzoola:

    Re-read the opening/original post. The term I used was "illegitimate" not "w/loaded dice".

    Keep in mind: The gist of the opening post is: what reforms can "The Gaming Commission" and/or "The Casinos" put into place to assure craps players that the dice are not loaded.

    To which I gave two recommendations and asked viewers for feedback.

    When I go to a Casino, I always presume the dice are "loaded" until proven otherwise. When I see several players (before my turn to throw)... seven out on short rolls, with the same combination of dice numbers, I try to keep my eye on the dice and pick the same dice while playing "The Don't Pass line".. Visa versa for when I see a Good Roll prior to my turn at the dice, except now I play as a "Do" better. I've had positive results by doing so, when the occasion has arouse. Most of the time I find no need to employ such a move, since the dice seem to roll "normal" (within the expected averages).

    An example of a Casino getting caught and fined for "illegitimate" dice can be found on Google Search under "Casino Fined".

    Obie1
     
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  9. Heavy

    Heavy Member

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    If we're talking about the same "illegal dice," we're talking about a brand of dice used by hundreds of casinos around the country - and the only thing wrong with the dice in this case was the that the gaming commission in that state had not approved that company's dice in that state. The casino reported itself to the gaming commission and accepted a slap-on-the-wrist fine. The dice have since been approved for use in that state. I know this to be true because I contacted the gaming commission involved directly and inquired about the situation. There was no "cheating" of customers involved. It was simply an administrative oversight by the casino that was discovered and rectified.
     
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  10. obie1

    obie1 Member

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    Thanks Heavy for that input:

    Actually, I was hoping to get some feedback as to: What The Gaming Commission or The Casinos can do to assure patrons at The Craps Table that the dice are not loaded.

    To which: I put forth two options that I thought would alleviate that concern:



    Any feedback or suggestions?

    Obie1
     
    #10
  11. mycoalsmith, Nov 4, 2013

    mycoalsmith

    mycoalsmith Member

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    I don't see how the "only 2 dice" or the "transparent dice of different colors" is going to make a difference to the shooter. The boxman could always have an extra bowl of the "fixed dice" within his reach but out of sight of players. As the dice are flying down the table (and everyone's eyes are on the dice flying - not the ones in the bowl), the boxman could quickly take the bowl off the table with one hand and replace it with the fixed dice and chances are none of the players would be any the wiser.

    As has been said, even if you would suspect or even know the dice are fixed, it's not like the casino will let you keep them, and unless the Gaming commission happens to be in the casino at that minute, you can't tell them.

    I can't hardly see casino's using fixed dice. The whole game of Craps is already in their favor. There aren't enough "dice influencers" - if you believe in it - or enough winners over time to cause a loss.
     
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  12. jkluv7, Nov 5, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    I did the google-thingy on "Casino Fined" and read the first 40 hits. Only one had anything to do with dice, and this appears to be the one Heavy was talking about dealing with unapproved dice : http://news.yahoo.com/cleveland-casino-fined-180-000-191151741.html . The infraction was minimal as well as the fine for this infraction.

    Given the 1/39 ratio of other fines, it certainly appears the Casino Control Commissions are doing their job, giving at least me the excellent feeling when walking into a casino that someone is watching out for the players and policing the casinos for bad practices. The majority of the infractions dealt with procedures, with a few dealing with slot machine software updates.

    I think a third option should be added to the mix... the player should go to the CGC cage, or office, at the casino and shake their hands for doing a good job in having the players' backs.

    Jeffrey
     
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  13. Heavy

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    Seriously - I don't want to insult you personally but please re-read what you just posted.

    1. Everyone's eyes are not always on the dice. The crew members are each charged with their own tasks - the stick guy watching the dice, the dealers watching the players on their ends of the table to make sure they're not past posting, but box watching the money. The eye in the sky watching everything.

    2. The boxman does not have custody of the bowl when the dice are out. The bowl is across the table in front of the stickman who, as I have already mentioned, is busy watching the dice. Do you think the boxman can stand up, lean across he table and swap out one dice bowl with another without anyone noticing? And where the hell is he storing that extra bowl full of gaffed dice.

    3. Where are these dumb ass players who are not going to observe any of this, especially since the whole bowl-swap transaction would take place BETWEEN half of the people at the table and the end where the dice land. I need to meet these folks. I have a "How to NOT be a Dumb Ass" seminar I'd like to sign them up for.

    4. Does anyone really believe that there is a casino out there whose management would knowingly jeopardize their gaming license in an attempt to cheat players at what is considered by most pit people to be the strongest table game in the house?

    5. Does anyone not realize that if the casino put gaffed dice on the table that "trend" players would quickly spot an anomaly in the roll results and capitalize on it by betting the hell out of the Don'ts?

    Sigh.

    Rant over. Somebody hand me a vodka martini - up, olive, dirty, icy.
     
    #13
  14. jkluv7, Nov 5, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    I wonder what Michelle Bachman and Glen Beck would think of this? And heaven forbid Ted Cruz gets wind of this... All the casinos in the world would be shut down.

    I still vote on thanking the Casino Gaming Commission for doing a bang up job in looking after us.

    Jeffrey
     
    #14

  15. obie1

    obie1 Member

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    Good feedback from all, and thanks:

    Mycoalsmith: I have to agree with Heavy on this one (his reply in Post # 12, paragraphs 1,2 & 3).


    Heavy: And yes, a decent trend better wound pick-up fairly quickly on certain numbers appearing unusually often and then capitalize on it.

    In a recent trip to MCC, Detroit; Gary and I did just that when 5 crap numbers in a row came out which include; 2 "12's, 2 "2s" and one ace-deuce. Gary went up heavy (no pun intended)... on it and I joined in for a lesser amount with heavy pressing by both of us after each roll. The winnings on the 5 rolls were lucrative for both of us, (more so for Gary than myself).


    Anyone else: have feedback?, like to hear your opinion, what do you think?

    Obie1
     
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  16. Heavy

    Heavy Member

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    Oh please. All three of the people you mentioned are pro-business. Give the political attacks a rest.
     
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  17. chas101, Nov 6, 2013

    chas101

    chas101 Member

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    I'm in favor of the "5 different Color Dice" Option.

    It would serve to alleviate any belief that the dice are "loaded" since players could observe what "2 Color Dice" are producing short rolls with a "7 out" and which "2 Color Dice" are producing "long or decent rolls"...

    If the Dice are truly "legit": The Commission and The Casinos should have no qualms with this.

    As far as the members of the commission "watching our backs"... I believe most of them are good and honest people..., but I'm a realist: no one is beyond reproach when it comes to compromising right and wrong when presented with large sums of money or "Christmas Gifts" (welcome to the real World)...

    That being said:

    I'm in favor of the: "5 different Color Dice" Option.

    Chas101
     
    #17
  18. six shooter, Nov 6, 2013

    six shooter

    six shooter Member

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    Well said Chas!
     
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  19. mycoalsmith, Nov 6, 2013

    mycoalsmith

    mycoalsmith Member

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    Hmmmmm . . . . . do I feel dumb. I guess I never paid attention to where the dice bowl is - I thought it stayed in front of the Boxman. I guess I need to pay more attention!!
     
    #19
  20. The Midnight Skulker, Nov 6, 2013

    The Midnight Skulker

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