cashing out?

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by lucky4688, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Aug 28, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Well i have a feeling that I will have a big SAR report from Caesars coming for my Vegas trip in a few weeks ah well i dont care if i have to walk into Bank Of America and with 9500 a day and buy a money orders I will before I give one more time to the IRS.
     
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  2. ComeBet, Sep 7, 2011

    ComeBet

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    I agree with Snake,

    I only get and provide a players card when I am playing for comps.

    When I first approach an establishment to get a feel I tend to try to stay as much as Mr. Cash as possible. Often after a couple hours the pit will ask if I have a comp card or if i want to be rated.

    If I plan not to return to the establishment or don't plan to frequent it i'll decline but ask if I can get a steak dinner on them. (They Usually oblige)

    Other then my usual haunts in AC (Showboat and Hilton) I avoid being tracked.

    On the subject of SARS,

    I work within an industry where we file them. Often we do so for thing that don't even seem fishy, but just want to protect your own a$$. Frequently they are filed incase at a later time law enforcment asks "Why didn't you notify anyone of this?" We then have the ability to say "We did we filed a SAR and did our due dilligence"

    I know for a fact SAR's have been filed on me at my local bank when I converted 8000USD to CAD for a gaming trip to Montreal.
     
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  3. Southern-Comfort, Sep 7, 2011

    Southern-Comfort

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    Thanks! Its refreshing to see someone who understands that SARS are not an attempt to harm you. It always bothers me when people win alot of money but can't comprehend that its income, even if from gambling. Pay the taxes guys. If you end up losing it back the tax came out of the winnings so you lose nothing by paying it.
    Oh, but it may bump you into a higher tax bracket? Yeah, so if it does then its because your income is higher.
    As my sister would say. "it is what it is."
     
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  4. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Dec 18, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    "
    [/quote]
    Thanks! Its refreshing to see someone who understands that SARS are not an attempt to harm you. It always bothers me when people win alot of money but can't comprehend that its income, even if from gambling. Pay the taxes guys. If you end up losing it back the tax came out of the winnings so you lose nothing by paying it.
    Oh, but it may bump you into a higher tax bracket? Yeah, so if it does then its because your income is higher.
    As my sister would say. "it is what it is."[/quote]


    bumping to the next tax bracket could cost you 20k easy. I have to write a check for a estimated 48k for taxes in Feb. Talk all the shit you want but the first time you have to write out a check like that you can talk.
     
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  5. Southern-Comfort, Dec 18, 2011

    Southern-Comfort

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    bumping to the next tax bracket could cost you 20k easy. I have to write a check for a estimated 48k for taxes in Feb. Talk all the shit you want but the first time you have to write out a check like that you can talk.[/quote]
    Thats what the casino taking the tax out to begin with is all about. You don't have to write that check in Feb, in fact you'll probably be getting some of the tax you paid at the casino, back.
     
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  6. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Dec 19, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    I guess you don't realize how a SAR form works. The casino does not take taxes out of your winnings but instead reports you to the IRS for a 100% guaranteed audit.

    It's total BS because the SAR form does not tell the IRS that you bought in for 5k and with no documentation to prove you bought in for the 5k taxes will be paid on the entire cashout. total BS man
     
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  7. ComeBet, Dec 21, 2011

    ComeBet

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    I think your a little confused on what the SAR does. It signifies that you are not attempting to launder funds. All cash withdraws or deposits of 10K are monitored in this manner and the SAR doesn't go to the IRS, (There is another form that is), it instead goes to the FINcen a part of the US Treasury to track the movement of hard currency.



    If you were to have 100k in the bank and make a cash deposit of 10k the bank would make the same SARS report to FINCen.

    On the Tax Issue,

    While using your card during your playing allows you to document losses to offset your gains with equitable gambling losses the only offset you are permitted to take is a 1 to 1 loss to gain on your taxes.
     
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  8. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Dec 21, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    As my in my post I am not talking about losses that can be used to offset I am talking about winning and your buy in not being counted as dead money and being counted as winnings when you cash over 10k at the window. So if you buy in for 5k and win 10k you are getting a SAR form for 15k which is BS.


    I was told personally by a successful craps player that if the casino files a SAR form on you for a winning night it's a 100% audit at the end of the year and we all know how a audit can go.


    2k in CPA fees alone of you are found to owe nothing is the best case

    And I know I have at least 2 because they photocopied my drivers license in both cases and that has never been done before which was confirmed by my friend who just laughed and said "yeah ur done" hahaha

    It's just a bad stuff all the way around. I am almost thinking of changing my Vegas trips to Bahamas trips. I have a family condo in Freeport but the limits are so low its almost not worth it. 1k max at Lucaya and probably the same at Isle of Capri. I have not been in like 4 years and they had just opened Isle and I was not into craps yet. To bad the days of Lakers airlines is closed and i could get on a free flight down there on thursday's. Now i heard it's West Jet and it's like 200 bucks RT.
     
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  9. cohiba3, Dec 21, 2011

    cohiba3

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    Greatest Shooter, I think you should find another CPA. For one, there is no reason to mail a check out in Feb., when you can mail it on April 15th, and 2K for his services?
     
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  10. nineroller9, Dec 22, 2011

    nineroller9

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    It seems some on this thread have confused the form CTR with SAR.

    A CTR ("Cash Transaction Report") is used by casinos (as well as banks and financial institutions) to report cash transactions in/cash transactions out of $10K or more within a 24 hour period to the Department of the Treasury (not strictly speaking, to the IRS). Cash In and Cash Out are separately tracked. So, $9,000 in and $1,000 out within 24 hours does not trigger a CTR, whereas $10,000 in and zero out will. Nevertheless, it seems most casinos will apparently start to track a player's transactions at around $3-4K for the purpose of aggregating the day's accumulated Cash In or Cash Out for completing the CTR. This is to make sure that the cash transactions are not being "structured" in order to avoid the issuance of a CTR for that day.

    An SAR ("Suspicious Activity Report") is just that -- a report (to the Treasury Department) of someone's suspicous activity involving cash transactions, i.e., activity that could evidence money-laundering, fraud and other illegal behavior. An SAR may be issued by a casino if the casino has reason to believe that "structuring" is taking place to avoid a CTR or if the individual is not being cooperative in providing CTR-related information.

    Thus a CTR may be issued without an SAR, or vice versa, or both may be issued simultaneously with the information available. The difference is that you will generally know when a CTR is issued. The casino is not obliged to tell you about the filing of an SAR. Also, most importantly, the issuance or non-issuance of either of these forms has no effect on one's continuing obligation to report gambling winnings (and, correspondingly, track losses) for tax purposes, whether or not a W2-G is issued for the winnings. Although it has not been its practice in the past, the IRS has in some notable instances recently begun reviewing and using casino-provided CTR information in connection with its audits. Food for thought.

    BTW -- Not providing a player's club card does not avoid any of these concerns. They will ask for the information from you directly when needed.
     
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  11. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Dec 22, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    "the IRS has in some notable instances recently begun reviewing and using casino-provided CTR information in connection with its audits. Food for thought."

    Exactly. this does not affect your average red chip bettor but this seriously affects us lavender bettors because in my 2 instances i have personally seen that my cash buy in was not taken into affect when it was chip cashing time. So new rule. Every time I take a piss I am cashing in some chips. And palming a few off to my friends and worst case i will just buy a room and cash half in and put the other half in the safe and cash the rest in the next day at check out. Just continue to adapt to conquer.
     
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  12. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Dec 22, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    For a blue collar Joe I can see how 2k seems high but its actually a deal for the prep needed to fight the IRS when you get your first of many appointments to audit all your info and accounts and match up numbers and records. Oh and your session is only a hr and then you will have to come back. If the auditor is not there for a appointment you still have to pay your CPA for showing up. Trust me man 2k could have been the tip of the iceberg.
    My last audit cost me a little over 2k in services and the IRS still owes me over 10k and the state owes me over 5k. State will not pay until IRS finalizes my claim and that was over 1 year ago. If it had to go to court I was looking at over 10k in fees easy. Once lawyers get in it the tap keeps rising. Luckly it did not have to go that far.

    I can see you have never been audited before....let me tell you for someone with multiple rental props and LLC's on top of a 40% tax bracket salary most who have been through the process you realize you have much more to lose than ever gain with those heartless a$$holes.

    Once they start saying deduction not allow and the amount owed on the right side of the screen keeps growing it's enuff to make you go postal.
     
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  13. cohiba3, Dec 22, 2011

    cohiba3

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    “For a blue collar Joe I can see how 2k seems high”. “My last audit cost me a little over 2k in services and the IRS still owes me over 10k and the state owes me over 5k”. “I can see you have never been audited before”.


    My point exactly! Why would you stay with a CPA that files your taxes in February and subjects you to audits?
    Doesn't make much business sense to me and you are obviously making assumptions you know nothing about.
     
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  14. eagledice, Dec 22, 2011

    eagledice

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    Just a side note, being in the "Biz", the auditors are definitely difficult. Government mentality. I sense a type of jealousy that you may earn more than them, but if they were motivated they would be working in private sector.

    Filing in Jan, Feb or October (extension) does not effect an audit. Those were the old days ( pre 1990 ) that people still believe.
    If a taxpayer owes more that 90% of last years taxes he must pay and estimate and have it paid by Jan 15 of the next year.
    Example, Every year I get a $1200 refund. This year I hit a $15,000 slot jackpot ( I wish ) and now will owe IRS $5000 on that money. Since I had a refund of $1200 last year and the jackpot means my taxes go up $5000 I should send the IRS $3800 as an estimate of 2011 by Jan 15th of 2012. ( Hope this is not to heavy stuff ). when I file 2011 my bottom line is breakeven.

    Audits today are either 1) random, 2) hit certain "dif score" or 3) part of an audit program. They still only audit less than 1 percent of the filing public. An audit program may be this year IRS audits "rentals" and use the findings of 2000-5000 poor unfortunate American taxpayers for setting up the new "dif" levels. That means for excample, if you are married, 2 kids.earn $65,000 then your charity deduction is between $200-$450, in other words the DIF is what the range is per deduction per income per location, etc etc etc.

    Sorry this is getting heavy. The majority of audits today are really random ( very minimal percentage and usually by mail ) or part of the "category". The category varies each year, maybe Rentals this year and next year its Construction Workers. Just depends.

    The IRS computer matches up all income ( W2s,Interest and Dividend stmts, etc ) and certain deductions ( Mortgage interest ) on your 1040 and if you MISS something, they adjust the 1040 and send you a bill. ( Example forgot Savings bond interest of a bond cashed out ).

    Nowadays with the closing of IRS Service centers and the States doing the same thing, it takes forever to get the Feds to hurry things along. There opinion of hurrying along is much different than ours. Honestly, the average Tax Audit can take 4 - 7 months to complete. You run to the office today, go over your info, seems ok and 4 months later they have a problem. You then go back there again, furnish the same information again and the auditor seems ok, now another 4 months go by before you get a response saying things are ok or not ok. .

    You hope its ok or you get to see Curly. Who is Curly you ask? Well you just spent 8 months with Larry, Curly is next and God hope you do not need to see Moe!!!!! I am not kidding..... Eventually it gets finally fixed by the IRS and you get your overpayment back. But now you need to contact the State. We will save that one for another day.


    So, after this long winded yada yada yada about those #@*&">Z$^% IRS Agents and such. don't worry to much about the IRS, just save your records for 3 years and make sure you have a qualified person doing your taxes.

    Worry less about taxes, worry more about playing smart at the Craps Tables.

    Merry Christmas to all..................


    EagleDice
     
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  15. basicstrategy777, Dec 22, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    It great to read a post, that contains substance, from someone that obviously knows what he is talking about.

    Thanks EagleDice.

    777
     
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  16. bek423, Dec 23, 2011

    bek423

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    So let's say I won $5000 on a Fire Bet this year and had to fill out paperwork, etc... I plan to offset that with losses and have documentation for that. Are you saying I will definitley be audited?
     
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  17. $nakeEye$, Dec 23, 2011

    $nakeEye$

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    Bek -

    In a word - NO - I do not think that what you are fearing was anywhere close to what these guys were saying -

    Whichever casino(s) you play in should be able to provide you with a win/loss statement for the year if you :

    1) request it from them and 2) if your buy-in and color-out amounts were recorded by the pit -

    This is another prime example why if one is winning - one should endeavor to " hoard " / " pocket " as many winning large denomination chips as possible -

    It inflates your " loss " numbers and " decreases " your win amounts !
     
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  18. bek423, Dec 23, 2011

    bek423

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    Yes. Good point. I have always done that just because I wnated to consider the winnings out of play. But your reason is an even better one.
     
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  19. Southern-Comfort, Dec 23, 2011

    Southern-Comfort

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    The harrahs properties have your win/loss available for you on their website (for each year after the end of the year). Just have to sign up and log into it with your card informatuion.
     
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  20. eagledice, Dec 23, 2011

    eagledice

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    Southern Comfort

    Just to take this a bit farther. In addition to Harrahs Online Win/Loss statement, the MGM/Mirage properties whose card is now called the "M Life" Players club, has an ongoing Win/Loss statement of your account. Its set up with the current year broken down by Quarters. You can also go back I think 5 years. So, for 2011 I can login and see my account by quarters and year to date.

    Funny how some Players Clubs go over the top whereas others want you to mail in a request form and hope to get it by May.

    EagleDice
     
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