Can You Accept The Possibility That You're Wrong?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by kaysirtap, Jan 17, 2012.

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Which statement best describes your general beliefs about dice control/influencing?

  1. I believe dice control works, and nothing will convince me that I'm wrong.

    54.2%
  2. I believe dice control works, but I'm willing to accept the possibility that I'm wrong.

    12.5%
  3. I don't believe dice control works, and nothing will convince me that I'm wrong.

    25.0%
  4. I don't believe dice control works, but I'm willing to accept the possibility that I'm wrong.

    8.3%
  5. I don't know whether or not dice control works.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. falcon, Jun 2, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    It happens all the time. The "sharks" that are selling these concepts/plans/"skills" are converting folks often. The conned continue to stand by their egos mostly in denial until they quietly figure out it really is a scam. Perhaps a strong parallel would be someone like Michael Jordon spending huge $$ for golf lessons/practice/equipment actually believing he could rise to the level of a touring pro and finally figuring out that his incredible basketball skill level does not translate to golf or baseball. Then, of course, there is sir Charles Barkley a golf and gambling icon; a true role model.

    falcon
     
    #81
  2. basicstrategy777, Jun 2, 2012

    basicstrategy777

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    I guess this would be a start......

    http://search.aol.com/aol/search?v_...&page=2&oreq=fa99ebc89cd64c6aa610b51bda95fe62

    Let me know if you have trouble finding anymore and I will help you.

    777
     
    #82

  3. JHPA

    JHPA Member

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    thanks - I guess.....

    Unless I did something wrong, you sent me a link that resulted in a search for "Dice Setting". I have done that myself many times.

    You said that "Everything you want to know about setting dice is on the internet......everything. It is available for ALL to see.....ALL." I guess I thought that there would be sources on the net that showed that dice setting works - that setting the dice results in a certain number being rolled or - at least - resulted in a somewhat predicted outcome. If you have something in that regard, please let me know.
     
    #83
  4. JGreen6918, Jun 2, 2012

    JGreen6918

    JGreen6918 Member

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    If strong disbelievers have been converted, don't you wonder what it is that convinced them that DI worked? I would think that strong disbelievers are not the type to be drawn in by the desire for easy money, so I would guess that they didn't just start believing because they wanted to believe that it's true. Whatever converted them must have been very very convincing. I wonder what it could be.
     
    #84
  5. Southern-Comfort, Jun 2, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    Unless memory is leading me astray (again) I believe Stanford Wong was initially a non-beliver in dice influence. I'm sure somebody here can either straighten me out, or enlighten us all with particulars. Personally, I wasn't there so I couldn't say what, if in fact anything did, sway him.
     
    #85
  6. basicstrategy777, Jun 2, 2012

    basicstrategy777

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    There are different levels of proof. I'm not sure which level you are looking for.


    Standard of proof: United States

    Legal standards

    Reasonable suspicion
    Reasonable to believe
    Probable cause for arrest
    Some credible evidence
    Substantial evidence
    Preponderance of the evidence
    Clear and convincing evidence
    Beyond reasonable doubt


    Non-legal standards

    Beyond the shadow of a doubt


    The Wong experiment in 2004 resulted in the Wizzard of Odds losing 1800 dollars to a writer and and Wong winning money from a gambler. The number of 7's rolled were fewer than were 'suppose' to be thrown per probability. This level of proof is probably not sufficient for you but there you go.......

    This subject brings out the passions in people and it usually ends badly.


    777
     
    #86
  7. falcon, Jun 2, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    People who gamble are always looking for the "silver bullet" that will lead them to "easy" wins. There are 3 million craps players it has been estimated domestically. Each of those folks will do most anything to win. They read books, buy systems, take classes on tossing, microscopically examine the "math," listen to anyone who can provide a twist or a tweek, and so on. "Conversions" happen every day in many ways, and the beat goes on. But for vertually all that play, the losing continues at a rate that far exceeds the winning.

    I proposed a "test" for "influencers/controllers" to a player whose credentials seem to be quite extrordinary. He begged off with excuses and what I believe were false premises. But the most important indisputable fact about "influencers/controllers" is that they themselves do not believe in their so-called "skill." THEY DO NOT WAGER IN A WAY THAT WOULD GUARANTEE A WIN OF $$ ON EVERY TOSS. They bet like everyone else who is a right side bettor, i.e, PL/FO + the 6 & 8 until they hit their number then they press and expand their pattern maybe. That should tell all that their "skill" is beyond suspect.

    falcon
     
    #87
  8. JGreen6918, Jun 2, 2012

    JGreen6918

    JGreen6918 Member

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    Like I said, I don't think that strong disbelievers fall into this category. I would think a strong disbeliever would need extremely convincing evidence to convert. And if it has happened in the past, I would like to know what this evidence was. Maybe BS777's example is it. I'm not sure.
     
    #88
  9. DeMango, Jun 3, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Now it gets interesting Falcon. How would you have us bet? There are three choices. You have disparaged the positive progression. The other two ways to bet are the negative progression or the flat bet, often as a percentage of Kelly.
     
    #89
  10. basicstrategy777, Jun 3, 2012

    basicstrategy777

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    It takes many qualities to be a good gambler and come out ahead......some things you have contrl over and some things you don't.

    The slight edge you gain with dice influencing can be swamped with poor play and bad luck.

    The sliver of edge you have is just not enough...IMHO.

    It is good to have an edge, but ultimately it's your style of play (and luck) that will be the biggest factors RE: if you win or lose.


    777
     
    #90
  11. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Jun 3, 2012

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Falcon I accept your challenge. When I am stateside in a few months ( Aug or Sep) I will fly to the destination of your choice and shoot in the casino of your choice with the one stipulation that you are there in person. U game?
     
    #91
  12. falcon, Jun 3, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    I have read the "Wong Study" and the sample is woefully small. It certainly does not reach the level of computer generated simulations that many here tout as gospel and somehow rely upon as "long term" play. Others I have read who have referred to Wong had the same basic comments.

    Is Wong a true convert? I really doubt it. Perhaps BS7's could provide us with an updated link or comment from Wong that is more current than 2004.

    falcon
     
    #92
  13. falcon, Jun 3, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    If I could "influence" the dice as you believe you can and that "influence/control" presented a 75%+ chance of not throwing a 7 out after the point is established for at least four rolls of the dice, I would wager the PL/MaxFO plus every other Place bet that was not the point for an amount that equaled the PL/FO plus I would wager the horn at $20/$100 bet on the other wagers. So if every Place bet was $200, my horn bet would be $40. After four tosses and wins, I would come down on all bets including the FO bet and reduce those wagers all to $25 each plus a $4 horn until the inevitable 7 out.

    To put it a different way, if I am a 90% free throw shooter and someone wants to wager against me making four consecutive free throws 80% of the time, I would bet very heavily on my real statistically proven skill. The so-called "DI/C" would have no part of the above because they actually do NOT believe in their "skill." In other words, they will NOT commit their own personal resources beyond the basic level of the non-"DI/C."

    falcon
     
    #93
  14. falcon, Jun 3, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    There is great honety and truth here in my opinion. All who play our game need to be very mindful of these statements of profound wisdom.

    falcon
     
    #94
  15. falcon, Jun 3, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    Sorry G 7 although you are very willing for me to risk my $$ on your perceived skill without any down side to you, I am not. The real question is: Would you be willing to risk your own capitol to prove your "skill"? Do you wager as such when you have the dice in hand even for only four tosses or are you like the rest and play the basic establishment way? How much confidence do you have in your "skill"?

    I love your generosity with my $$$.

    falcon
     
    #95
  16. Southern-Comfort, Jun 3, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    Where did G7 ask you to risk anything? He just wanted to be sure you'd be there (and is going above and beyond in order to accomadate you in that).
     
    #96
  17. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Jun 3, 2012

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Falcon,
    I just planned to convert you into a believer on DI not based off your skill but off watching mine. It would not cost you a anything. But it will hopefully put a end to these endless threads, and personally I am hoping you pick somewhere in MS because I have not been there in over a decade and keep hearing good things. So the challenge was to win 400 at each casino based off my DI skills? All day let me know
     
    #97
  18. falcon, Jun 7, 2012

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    Mississippi is perfect for me. I will be there in July. I will forward the exact date within a couple of days.

    You will love the total Biloxi venue, if you choose to go there. I am willing to be converted and will so state. I will maintain a positive approach to your skill and hope that you succeed. There are eight casinos in the immediate Biloxi area with three or four others within fifteen miles the of the eight. Seven of those eight would be to your liking I suspect as they all have "standard" tables. The Boomtown casino's table is at least two feet longer.

    If July is unworkable, the next sure date for me would be in September.

    Hey DeMango, just got back from Biloxi yesterday and had a chance to get to the new Margaritaville facility. It was okay but the locals do NOT think very much of the place. They are not providing any kind of comps, the Buffet opening was closed to the general population, and he left right after his opening concert for the bigwigs never to be seen by the regular patrons. Unless they provide comps, contests, and hype, they will NOT survive. Compared with the Hardrock, Beau Rivage, and Imperial Palace the Monday night action was pretty slack.

    falcon

    p.s. G 7: If you are successful, I promise not to ask you for tips or lessons or coaching. You see I know that DI's/"controllers" must practice for huge numbers of hours. I would NOT commit myself to that kind of a regimen; I just would NOT practice the skill.
     
    #98
  19. Southern-Comfort, Jun 7, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    Falcon, you could always take an approach like mine. Yes I set the dice. I do not go at it like its my living though. I'm just there to have fun, you know, gamble. I just like a little edge without too much work.
     
    #99
  20. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Jun 7, 2012

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    Falcon I think we are looking at September. I am down for the MS game. I will also bring the best 6/8 set shooter I have ever seen in person. He is not on this forum but he has a killer toss man. When we get closer I will im you my info.

    We can post the results on the forum as they happen and hopefully Jacob will get rid of the size limits on the pics so we can add camera phone shots.
     
    #100
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