# Calculating the payouts

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by Night Attack, Dec 7, 2015.

1. Night Attack, Dec 7, 2015

### Night Attack Member

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Is there a quick way to calculate the payout for place numbers on payouts of 7:6, 7:5 and 9:5 without having to calculate it all by dividing by 5 or 6 and multiplying by 7 or 9? Or is it just a case of familiarity with the bet size?

Sometimes i will hava an irregular amount up where i do not know the payout as a result of repetition and i don't really want to work it out in my head when i'm shooting. Eg, i know quickly what a \$240 6/8 pays but not so quickly what a \$265 5/9 pays.

For a payout of 9.5 / 1 on a \$75 hard 6/8 i know quickly to multiply by 10 and minus half the wager, so the payout will be \$750 - \$37.50 = \$712.50 plus the bet stands. I was looking for similar short cut calculations on some of the other payouts if anyone knows of any.

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2. KokomoJoe4, Dec 7, 2015

### KokomoJoe4 Member

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Good question. I don't have enough bets working at one time to need to worry much about this, but I always do the math in my head when putting out a bet to be sure what I am paid is correct. I've had to question a payout way more than once, and as long as you don't touch anything, they'll eventually get it right.

This proves not to be much of a problem worrying about the math when they're pulling your chips into the bank when the dice settle the wrong way.

I'd play the hard ways more than once in a blue moon if they paid us 7.5 and 9.5 to 1.

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3. Night Attack, Dec 7, 2015

### Night Attack Member

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I figure there must be some short cuts as way too many times have i seen a particular boxman pick up dealer calculation errors on large (non rounded) amounts while also picking up that a dealer has not sent out the dollar change to someone else or that someone else has one too many chips on the odds and i wonder how in the hell can he do all that in his head so quickly, especially when crap numbers keep popping up and players just parlay to the nearest and the payout on any craps is 7.5/1. Either there are short cuts or that guy is really a whiz at calclating in his head.

A trick i learned way back in school for my 11 times tables was to just slot the sum the two individual numbers in between.

So 11 x 54 would be a 9 slotted in between the 5 and 4 to make 594. If it were something like 78 then the total by this method would be 7158 in which case you'd need to re sum the first 2 digits into 1, hence the 71 would become an 8 for a total of 858.

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4. Onautopilot, Dec 7, 2015

### Onautopilot Member

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\$265 place 5 or 9 is a bit of an unusual bet, normally you would see a \$250 bet instead. But, I would calculate using two denominations........I find it fairly easy to do in my head, but I'm not always right.

First do \$250...payout is \$350. Then do \$15...payout is \$21. Add the two together....\$371.

You can do that on any "odd" amount, just take the easy closest total, then do the "change", and add them together.

I always figure the correct payout on my bets before the dice roll, but mine are easy, as I always bet in multiples that are easily calculated in my head. After years of play it just becomes second nature, plus I was a dealer years ago.

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5. tabletop123, Dec 7, 2015

### tabletop123 Member

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My payouts are relatively easy to figure out also. They normally amount to ZERO! How hard was that to figure out? Lol

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6. ### 7uwin Member

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I would tell my dealers and students you have 6 numbers but only 2 payoffs 7 and 9. memorize multiples of 7 don't worry about the 9 because after bets of 5, 10, 15, they will be buy bets that pay 2 to 1 anyway.

When you get to larger denominations you just add the 0. You know a \$35 9 pays 49 so you know a 350 9 pays 490.

With uncommon bets its like OAP said you go to what you know ie: 350 +21

Or a \$900 9 you know a 1000 9 pays 1400 and a 100 9 pays 140. So you would subtract 140 from 1400 for a payoff of 1260

Now the prop box is another whole story. there are many "keys". like a hi-low you would go the bet + 1/2 bet add a zero minus half the bet.

ie: \$2 hi-lo 2+1 = 3 add the 0 = 30 - 1/2 the bet = 29 all keys are designed to leave the winning bet up. Any dealer knows a 2 hi-lo pays 29 off the top of his head. These keys come into play when there are large or uncommon bets.
Lets take a \$90 hi-lo
90 + 45 = 135 add the zero 1350 - 45 payoff is 1305.
There are to many keys to list I have one or more for just about every wager on a craps table but not the time to post them.

If you want to know any of the keys post it here on the thread and I will see if I can help you

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Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
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7. DeMango, Dec 8, 2015

### DeMango Member

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\$265 payout in Mississippi? I would first take \$260 x1.5 for \$390 minus vig of \$20 plus \$7 for the remaining \$5. \$377 total. As always, it pays to play in Mississippi!

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8. ### 7uwin Member

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Yes it does all outside numbers are an automatic buy no vig until you win.
However the vig on this wager would be \$13.25

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Last edited: Dec 8, 2015

9. ### 7uwin Member

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I'm assuming you're down under in OZ and the hard 6&8 pay 9.5 to one?

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10. Night Attack, Dec 8, 2015

### Night Attack Member

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Correct weight 7uwin.

Here in Sydney and most other casinos around the country of which there is basically one casino per state, the odds are the same though some of the smaller markets don't even have a craps table.

Some payout differences to the US include the hardways 6/8 at 9.5 / 1, 4/10 at 7.5 / 1, hi lo at 33/1, 3/11 at 16/1, 2/12 in the field double, any craps at 7.5 / 1 and unfortunately for us only double odds maximum on the win line. And while i'm at it the win line is your pass line.

I enjoyed the keys you mentioned in your earlier post re the hi lo payouts but unable to use that one at 33/1.

Good stuff though.

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11. ### 7uwin Member

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Love OZ because I'm a surfer.

You can create your own keys. At 33 to 1 the key to a \$2 hi/lo down under would be 1/2 the wager x 3 add a zero + the wager would = 32 and still up or 34 and down

As I posted keys are good for more difficult bets.
So take an \$18 hi/lo you would go 9 x 3 =27 =270 + 18 =288 or 306 and down

Any casinos on the goldie? I could surf snapper rocks and kirra all day and play craps all night.
what a life mate.....

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Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
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12. KokomoJoe4, Dec 8, 2015

### KokomoJoe4 Member

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Watch for the sharks at both places 7uw.

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13. ### 7uwin Member

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Rule #1 always respect the locals

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14. ### Liman Member

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I heard the sharks in Australia only bite you if you practice DI.
one of the reasons I don't.

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15. ### 7uwin Member

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"Can you shuffle checks with your left hand?"
-Ace Rothstein

"Can you influence dice with no right arm?"
-Great white shark

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16. The Midnight Skulker, Dec 8, 2015

### The Midnight Skulker Member

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Here is a response I gave in The Before Time to a new dealer who asked for some general advice.

Thread subject: All the craps dealers out there...

When it comes to making payouts on wierd bets the more techniques you know
the better. As an example I will use a bet I frequently make that trips up
two dealers out of three the first time they see it: a \$24 lay (on \$15 flat)
behind 5 or 9.

1.
The brute force method: run the numbers. (\$24 / 3) * 2 = \$16

2.
Take the four red and four white chips and mentally divide them into
groups of three. Three red pays two red, three white pays two white, the
remaining red and white (\$6) pays \$4. Two red (\$10) + two white (\$2) + \$4 =
\$16. (I have also laid \$39 behind 5 or 9 and had a dealer use this same
technique verbally to calculate the payoff. "Thirty pays twenty, nine pays
six. I guess I owe you \$26.")

3.
Gosh, if only the lay had been \$30 you would know immediately to pay \$20.
So, how much less than \$30 is \$24? Answer: \$6. How much would \$6 pay?
Answer: \$4. So how much less than \$20 should that actual payoff be? Answer:
\$4. \$20 - \$4 = \$16.

4.
Take the four red and four white chips and mentally increase them one
color level to four green and four red. That's \$120, which pays \$80, which
is three green and a red. Now decrease the color level of this hypothetical
payoff to three red and one white to get the real payoff: \$16.​

Using your example, \$265 place 5:

1.
(\$265 / 5) * 7 = \$371.

2.
\$265 = \$250 + \$15. \$250 pays \$350; \$15 pays \$21. \$350 + \$21 = \$371

3.
\$265 = \$275 - \$10. \$275 = \$250 + \$25. \$250 pays \$350; \$25 pays \$35; therefore \$275 pays \$385.
Payoff on \$265 = (Payoff on \$275) - (Payoff on \$10) = \$385 - \$14 = \$371

4.
Rather than mentally changing to colors I would simply separate them.
\$265 = two black (\$200), two green (\$50), and three red (\$15).
\$200 pays \$280; \$50 pays \$70; \$15 pays 21. \$280 + \$70 + \$21 = \$371.​

My preference in both examples is for technique #2.

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17. DeMango, Dec 8, 2015

### DeMango Member

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Hoover Dam, you are so right, my calc's are off. \$265 would have a total vig of \$13 as breakage is at least \$270. If \$1 is payed at even money, as usually happens, then \$264 would have a payout of \$400 minus \$13 plus \$1 so we are up to \$388!

So \$371 vs \$388. What's in your wallet? A lot more in Mississippi!

Still thinking about the good old days in Tunica when Jack Binions' Horseshoe would have paid that as \$388.50. Then Harrah's took over, no more 50 cent pieces!

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18. Night Attack, Dec 8, 2015

### Night Attack Member

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I'm starting to love those keys and this is exactly what I was hoping would be available. But as a player who won't need to calcuate this as often it still may take me the same amount of time to calculate normally. I would do the hi or the lo bet that hit i.e 85 x 10 = 850 x 3 = 2550 plus 85 x 3 = 255 and add the two together for total of 2805 and of course only the one is still up in which case i'd need the exta calculation to get it back up. But i think your way is slightly faster and better especially from a dealer perspective. Still it's good to have a double check up my sleeve.

Yes there is a casino on the Gold Coast and it is called Jupiters and they do have a craps table though it is not open 24/7. But that won't bother you as you'll be surfing during non peak times and dodging great whites along with Liman. You see the sharks down this way have a penchant for surfers, Di's as well as bubble craps players.

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19. Twelve4s, Jul 19, 2018

### Twelve4s Member

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If you’re from Mesa, the answer is yes. Keyboard pecking can be done with the left hand.

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