Biased or Unfair Dice at your TABLE?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by SevenOut, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. basicstrategy777, Apr 19, 2017

    basicstrategy777

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    9,124
    Likes Received:
    8,265
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    CT.
    Where the hell you been.....several here were worried that you sevened out. Good to see you post.

    777
     
    #261
    yacraps likes this.
  2. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 20, 2017

    The Midnight Skulker

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    4,131
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    #262
    yacraps likes this.
  3. lone irish digit, May 14, 2017

    lone irish digit

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,503
    Barney wanted to go to Reno this weekend but he got lost on the drive out there. We ended up at a small town out west with a small, tub like, craps table. This looked like an ideal place to ply my DI skills. However, when I tossed the dice a few times all I got were PSO. I strongly suspected bias dice so I brought it to the attention to the proprietor . Not a good move since these guys tossed both me and Barney out into the street. I think from now on we will just stick with River Boat Casinos. At least if we get tossed we have a good chance to land in the water.





    [​IMG]
     
    #263
    yacraps likes this.
  4. Twelve4s, May 14, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    6,379
    Likes Received:
    6,473
    Gender:
    Male

    Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Looks like it turned out ok, though? Did they feel so bad about tossing you in the street, that they gave you a job at the printing shop? Or are you printing the first run of your new book. The picture and your casino story don't coincide? Since you changed to a goat, there's some confusion in your posts.
     
    #264
    yacraps likes this.
  5. lone irish digit, May 14, 2017

    lone irish digit

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,503

    Barney just put a picture of his favorite goat with my cap on it for mother's day. So if I was tossing dice on top of a printing press no wonder the house won and my hands got so filthy. Those dudes that gave us the boot would put Full Press to shame with their foul mouths.
     
    #265
    yacraps likes this.
  6. Twelve4s, May 15, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    6,379
    Likes Received:
    6,473
    Gender:
    Male

    Thanks for clearing this up, and a belated happy Mother's Day. Has Barney tried one of his skunk hats on any of his goats? I guess most goats don't like skunks?


    IMG_8459.JPG
     
    #266

  7. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    8,310
    Likes Received:
    7,218
    parx casino next week, leftyaj, you still around here? would be nice to see a familiar face and shoot some dice next week, midweek? Wednesday night?
     
    #267
    yacraps likes this.
  8. SevenOut, Jul 4, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    Biased? Who cares. Play the BIAS. Are you that stupid?

    I handed out some blank dice cubes. Told the individual to use a magic marker and write 1 through 6 on each cube and record outcomes.

    Hmmmm. Still waiting. Zzzzzzzz.

    Then write the numbers that do not add up to Seven on opposite sides.

    Zzzzzzzzz.

    Now take Biased Dice. Magic marker on them different pip counts. Record.

    Zzzzzzzz.

    If Dice are Bias... wager on the BIAS. Play the Don't. Play the Pass.

    I have seen and owned biassed dice. These were white 'bone dice' and the pip would be drilled out and filled with lead. Some were removed from play, broken to reveal the lead within the die to actually create Dice Bias. This is the one and only way to make a Die Biassed. Probably some Head Cracking as a bonus to the owner of these dice.

    Anything else would be a margin of outcomes outside the Statistical predictions. This is WHY we play Craps. These 'quirks' in outcomes, which are random chance. Not to repeat again, or could.

    Possibly someone recording outcomes with... short memory and make some... adjustments to prove Bias. Then... lets pull those dice out and find out who manufactured them and... sue their asses.
     
    #268
    yacraps likes this.
  9. SevenOut, Jul 5, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    Which are NOT Fair Dice? Scan.jpeg Scan 1.jpeg Scan 2.jpeg Scan 3.jpeg
     
    #269
    yacraps likes this.
  10. von duck, Jul 5, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,273
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Gender:
    Male
    #270
  11. SevenOut, Jul 6, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    ******
    You are correct. That pair are BIASED DICE. They roll 7's and 11's and sold at novelty shops in Las Vegas. "Guaranteed to Roll 7 or 11 Every Roll!" for $4.49.

    They include concave pips with standard pips and then a pair with 5's on all sides and the other die with 2's or 6's.

    I palmed these at a Craps Table with my dealers one evening.

    No one suspected that I would pull this off, so it went off so quickly that no one noticed. It was at that time I explained to the Dealers... Trust NO ONE at a Craps Table with money in play.

    The pair with concave PIPS. They are no more Biased than Certified Perfects.

    Bubble Craps dice 'biased'???

    You have to be out of your, you know what, mind. Prove it or explain to everyone how you know... Also explain what the incentive would be to have 'crooked dice' at a Bubble. This will be interesting reading. Your reply must be longer than five words.

    Take a pair from a Monopoly set. Use a dice cup. I have thousands of dice of all sizes and do not need to make anything up to prove my points. In order to 'load' a die, you must add significant weight to make the die BIASED. Do not trust any die that cannot be held up to a light and inspected internally. Although the white pair are honest dice. No logo, as players will not accept them as 'honest dice'.

    This whole Theory of Die Bias... is not even theory. It is a farce.

    Sure, using calipers the die may be off balance, that is obvious... maybe. Once they are tossed half way across a table... you will be surprised. If you have never tried it... well, anyone who believe unaltered dice are biased are selling something.
     
    #271
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    yacraps likes this.
  12. twodicebilly, Jul 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,546
    Likes Received:
    1,229
    Gender:
    Male
    Sevenout

    Depends on your definition of biased..????

    Everyday there are dice in play at many casino's
    that are not balanced properly from one to the other.
    Hell you can go to your table right now and pick out
    pairs of dice and throw and you will see different result
    sets with different pairs of dice.

    So is that biased dice or just poor dice????

    TDB
     
    #272
  13. SevenOut, Jul 6, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    The DI crowd have a list of 'biases'.

    Since I have yet to find a Bias in Outcomes on legitimate shot dice AND not legitimate dice, I have no list to offer.

    Loaded Dice are not honest dice. Although, if you suspect loads in a die... toss them like you play for the Yankee pitching staff. You will either break the die or get decent outcomes. Or like some players, piddle with them in front of you for a minute... crooked tables will not allow you to... piddle, you know.

    Bone, Ivory, Acetate, Nitrate dice that are not loaded will give honest outcomes if tossed half way across a table. Try it. Take the crappiest cubes and try it.

    The ONLY time you must be concerned with 'honest dice' is at a private game. If you offer your dice to be used... watch their reaction. Same, both ways. Been there... never had to debate the issue. An experienced Craps Player will suspect something is up with outcomes that do not seem realistic. I should not have to explain as well, you know it, as well. The numb nuts... will keep playing.

    Casino's do not have any reason to run crooked dice. Any intelligent Craps Player will take advantage of the bias. If the Stickman wants to 'change the die or dice' PROTEST loudly so everyone at the table hears.

    The chance of this ever happening is.... sound of crickets... NEVER.

    Now if some fool tosses a die off the table, and says SAME DICE... and the die comes back with a corner missing... sorry Charlie. That die is no longer... legitimate. Although may not change the outcomes. I say probably... not.

    I have used dice that were used at a table. When removed from the table they are inspected, time played, number on the set of five, date, pit table number, shift and signed by the employee with employee number. If anything is discovered to be... odd... it is all on the sealed package.
     
    #273
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    yacraps, Mssthis1 and HornHighBLEVE like this.
  14. SevenOut, Jul 6, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    "Hell you can go to your table right now and pick out
    pairs of dice and throw and you will see different result
    sets with different pairs of dice."

    I sure the hell hope that I get different results. If I shot four dice and all ended up with ACES on top... OK, you got me there.

    Otherwise...

    If I took a four dice, shot two at a time getting different results... so???? That would not bother me at all. That is why I play the 5, 6, 8 and 9. I like different dice outcomes do to my wagering.
     
    #274
    yacraps and Mssthis1 like this.
  15. twodicebilly, Jul 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,546
    Likes Received:
    1,229
    Gender:
    Male
    Sevenout

    Inspected does not mean anything, a good many casino's dont
    know how to check to see if the dice are balanced properly, and
    they dont care.

    I have seen Bowler use unbalanced dice, they saw it and they
    still used them. I saw them check at Gold Coast in Vegas for
    balance...she unwrapped the packages, measured them, and put
    them back in the wrapper, I asked what she was doing, she indicated the
    dice need to be checked to make sure they are in balance...

    Not a clue !!!!

    the question is does that factor into your play or does that create an
    advantage for the casino.???

    Now I used worry about that, I dont now because it is my decision to
    play or not to play.... it does not affect 99% of the players that play, and
    the 1% that is good enough to see imbalance , are good enough to adjust.

    Sevenout...it is just what it is....you see someone throw the dice and one goes
    up on the rail and comes back down and the number is a 7.....shit happens

    TDB
     
    #275
  16. SevenOut, Jul 6, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    I think we are both on track twodice...billy.

    The suppliers of dice and cards to Casinos work on a small margin of profit. The volume is where they make money. I have watched dice being manufactured and the cost of the equipment used is not inexpensive, nor the labor cheap to finish the dice. These are machined pieces of work, tolerances like wheel bearings on an automobile with similar lathes and drills.

    When the dice arrive at the Casino, they are sealed like you would find a package of gold coins being shipped by Certified Mail. The testing is done at the Supplier End and the Receiving side... the Casino. The 'sticks of five' are standard wraps. Hand wrapped after spot checks assure they all match. If one die is damaged, they are pulled aside and the manufacturer always have finished dice spares to finish the stick if one needs to be removed.

    If ONE die is found to be misnumbered, missing a pip where a 5 has 4 pips, one side blank or anything... the ENTIRE shipment is returned. Please... trust me, I do not have to make up anything to get my point or points across. This is true.

    You and I understand that when you are throwing lots of repeats that just do not fit into our idea of outcomes... take advantage of your experience and make some money. Of course, this will never happen.

    I estimate that 50% of Craps Players have no idea what they are doing. This is the same for $100 players and $2,000 players.

    My wife, also a dealer and I were at Southpoint Casino in Las Vegas with the Rodeo crowd. A Rancher bought in with $2,000 and it was obvious had no idea how to wager... in seconds had half his initial buy in, went to the next table, lost it all and walked off. Maybe six minutes.

    I had this urge, but resisted, that I should talk to this guy but reason overtook me and I watched him wander off into the sunset. He no doubt believed the DICE were BIASED. No one else had a complaint.

    I do have around here one or more dice with a PIP actually fell out. Also a finished die that the Five had FOUR pips on a finished die with a Casino Logo. No... shit. Well, maybe no logo, but I would have to find it to recall.

    We can argue all day about this. I am in the middle. I have watched and examined both sides.

    If I can find BIASED dice that affect the Dice Pyramid... I will be able to prove it possible. As of today. Nothing.
     
    #276
  17. Mssthis1, Jul 6, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    2,705
    Likes Received:
    4,131
    Some people believe that every 36 roll sample of dice rolls should look like a perfect pyramid. If it doesn't they claim bias or influence depending on how it best fits their story.


    Dice pyramids are like the Egyptian pyramids. It took many many thousands of blocks to build a perfect Egyptian pyramid. When only a few hundred or few thousand blocks were in place they looked nothing like a perfect pyramid.


    Dice result pyramids are the same way.
     
    #277
    yacraps likes this.
  18. SevenOut, Jul 6, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    ******
    I would like you to list those 'people'. I have in my lifetime found no one who thinks like that, other than a total Moron, which there are many examples posting on craps forums. None meeting your point.

    I like the pyramid example. Would be nice that you did not remove the rest of the sentence. You obviously follow the building of the pyramids of Egypt. I built pyramids out of Craps Dice. They were posted on this Forum. I know pyramids. You are no pyramid builder. :)

    But do not make the assumption that you are speaking to idiots, incompetents and morons that stand at a Craps Table. You are on the Craps Forum. Not a rest home for deviates.
     
    #278
  19. SevenOut, Jul 6, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    89005
    'Rest home for Deviates':

    Standard Deviation of a Probability Distribution of Dice.... 'deviates', that is.

    Get it? Deviate.... for those who correctly understand that Casinos use Honest and Fair Dice where after each roll, all outcomes within the Dice Pyramid are possible.

    Whew... I had better explain what I meant, so deviates would not swarm like gnats sucking out blood from victims in the process of mating with one another.

    When the Believers of funky dice deviation for DI mental stimulation still shoot craps and complain that the dice are rigged in the favor of the Casino... type deviates. You know who you are. Play Keno. Beats Bingo and is much quicker.
     
    #279
    yacraps likes this.
  20. Grizzoola, Jul 6, 2019

    Grizzoola

    Grizzoola Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,505
    Likes Received:
    502
    SevenOut, I started a thread some time ago, re: this topic & immediately it got into a biased dice discussion. I'm still curious whether it makes any difference in the Dice Pyramid if the numbers on opposite sides do not add up to seven.

    Do you know if such dice exist to experiment w/ that idea? I'd like to make my own set out of wood & using felt tip pen to randomly "pip" the dice, but unable.

    My hunch is that it does not make a difference, so all the attention re: this topic is mistaken. As usual, I stand to be corrected.
     
    #280
    yacraps likes this.
Reminder: This is the Dice Influencing section.