Betting the hardways

Discussion in 'Prop Bets & Side Bets' started by superrick, May 3, 2014.

  1. superrick, May 3, 2014

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Betting the hardways

    Prop bets are stupid bets right ? Well how comes you can have some stupid player making hardway bets and they walk away a winner? It's very simple, they are betting on what is being rolled, they are not going by the math of the game, and that is one thing a lot of players will never understand.

    Just because the math of the game says something is a bad bet if the shooter is rolling them they can be the best bet on the table at the time! I've heard it plenty of times when some player is talking to their buddy about how stupid a player is for making the hardway bets! They will still be talking about the hardway bet player, even after they walked away a winner by betting on them.

    One of the ways you can take advantage of the hardways is by having more chips on the soft way placed bet. Sure you are taking a bigger risk, but your reward will be there if the shooter does roll a hardway.

    The first thing I tell anybody that is betting the prop bets, is to make sure the shooter is actually rolling what you are betting on! If nobody is rolling the hardways, you shouldn't bet them! Craps is a game that is all about the timing! If your 15 minutes late, the old story is you should have been here 15 minutes ago. There is one hell of a roll going on then! If you do catch a roll where the shooter is rolling a lot of hardways you need to get some of your chips on the hardways.

    You have to start out knowing that any prop bet is a bad bet, if you are just going by the math of the game. You shouldn't be making hardway bets if they are not being rolled. But there are days when someone is rolling so many hardways you just can't ignore them!

    This is where you turn a bad bet into a good bet,if you are paying attention to what is happening on the table! Of course I'm going to put a disclaimer in here, there is no guarantee that you will win anytime you do this, as with any other bet that you make on a craps table.

    It always helps to have a lot of table time, when you're making judgment calls on prop bets. Your experience will tell you if you got a shot at winning those bets. Your bankroll will decide for you how much you can risk when making these hardway bets. If you start off small, and the hardways are hitting, you should always parlay your first bet when it hits, you are actually gambling, when looking at the hard way bets out a way to make money. So why not gamble big, and parlay your hit.

    If you hear my stickman calling: http://s63.photobucket.com/user/seas3to5/media/comingout.mp4.html


    It just might be time to bet the hard-eight!
     
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  2. KokomoJoe4, May 6, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

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    Rick,

    if you just hit the hard 8 for a nickel, do you parlay with the entire $50?

    Why not rack a quarter and let a quarter sit? This way, you're in the black win or lose with the hopeful comeback.

    You must admit, chances of a loser are better than for a winner, so why give it all back? I usually go 5 to 25 to 111, and always come off with the last winner, getting on a decent sized place bet for the boys.

    I will admit there are times when I could kick myself for not getting on the hardways when they are coming in bunches. One time, when shooting, I must have hit six or seven of them, making a ton of $$ for everyone but myself........ Dumbass
     
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  3. basicstrategy777, May 6, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    faint heart never wins the maiden..........but he does get back some of his money.

    777
     
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  4. superrick, May 6, 2014

    superrick

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    That's a good question, I play it either way, as I like to say when I don't do a full parlay, my wife is talking to me! You should know the out come on most of those parlays turn out to be why in the world do I listen to my wife when she's not at the table.

    You have to look at what you have in your rack and that should be the real deciding factor all jokes aside. Face the facts, there are days you will be struggling and there are days you can't do anything wrong! This morning I hit a parlay that I took half of it down, then rolled it right back. The hardways were not coming like I would have liked to see them.

    I look at hardways as a way of playing breakage most of the time! The breakage can pay off if you are making a lot of hard ways. I also know that they are bad bets, so if they are not being rolled I have no money on them. Some days they flow like water, other days they are frozen in time and nobody can make one!

    You have to be very flexible in the way you bet, when it comes to making stupid bets like the hardways. If nobody is rolling them keep your chips in your rack.

    I would never tell anybody that they should bet the hardways 100% of the time, I only do it when they are being rolled. Knowing that they are bad bets, and realizing that for some odd reason everybody is throwing them and not going crazy can make you a lot of money.

    Trends do happen all the time, that is the reason we can win at craps, so why not take advantage of a hardway trend when you see it happening on the tables. You have to know the math of the game, and understand that you are making bad bets by doing so, but on the other hand you have to realize that trends can knock the math of the game right out of the ballpark.

    I still say I see more money lost by players betting on the six and the eight, then any other numbers, when nobody is rolling them, and you are seeing nothing but outside numbers! Trends don't always go the way the books say they should go.

    Taking what the table is giving you, can save your day!
     
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  5. SevenOut, May 9, 2014

    SevenOut

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    Superrick, as you know MY consistent biggest money maker on my Hit and Run $100 to $300 bankroll player are the Hardway Six and Eight being played along side the Place 6/8 or Point 6/8 all of the time! Of course, my odds bet can be the #1 earner or #2 if the Hardways are hitting... out of statistical norms.

    I have played with back to back hardways. I have played when only Hard Fours and Tens were rolled. I have played when no Hardways were hit and the game was short or long.

    There are no BAD HARDWAY BETS, if you have them backed up with a Place Bet or one or the other is the Point. You will squeeze enough from the Place Bets to keep your loses mitigated.

    I watched the Hard Eight rolled back to back while my wife was playing Bubble Craps... but she was too conservative with a $6 Place bet and $1 on the Hardway. Ask her today how she would play the Hard Six and Eight... it would be a $5 wager with the minimum Place Bet... at least. Higher Place Bet... double the Hardway wager in the process.

    When the Hardway hits, you are paid for the Place Bet AND the Hardway. Then... watch the Hardways begin to show up from other players!

    The only advice... Hardways OFF on a Come Out. I am following tradition by having my Place Bets OFF and the Place 6 and 8 are my insurance for Soft Way loses on my Hardways.

    Otherwise... The Hardways, even the Four or Ten if point are my favorites.

    Kokomojoe4 must have been doing a bit of sarcasm on a parlay, if you are playing an under $300 bankroll system.

    Since the Hardway wagers are not prudent for some player's system or game plan, for the Hit and Run Player it works just fine, thank you. The Hardway wagers must be in proportion to the Six and Eight wagers that protect against the Softway hits. Although KJ4 obviously likes playing them... you have to be on them all of the time in line with your game plan.

    I watched a $5 Eleven/Yo become a $75 parlay and hit again. The player brought it down for $1125 with applause from the Chickens, like myself, for holding out for the LONG SHOT! That is a bragging right to bring up when someone says those Stick Bets are ALL sucker bets. Sometimes they pay.
     
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  6. KokomoJoe4, May 9, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

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    I seldom play them Seven-out - maybe once every five or six sessions, and even then only a couple of nickel tries on the 6 and 8 only. I'd be willing to wager that my success with them is less than the 1 in 10 odds. But when I catch one, I go to $25. If it hits, I'm looking for a thousand so I leave $111. In many years, I've only done this 4 or 5 times, one time pretty recently : - )
     
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  7. superrick, May 9, 2014

    superrick

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    Here is a roll that happened today when I was playing it just so happened to be a so-called random roller that had the dice, there was a lot of hard fours being thrown, and the table had turned on! There was one guy betting all the hardways for $25 each. Here is the roll 9p, 9w, 9p, 8, 5, 9w, 6p, 5, 4, 6w, 8h p, 10, 6h, 6h, 6, 10h, 9, 4h, 9, 10, 5, 4, 5, 4h, 5, 11, 9, 11, 4h, 6h, 5, 8w, 3, 9p, 5/2

    The guy that was betting all the hard-ways got paid on very one of them, I got paid on two parlays I was using breakage and sometimes a $5 hard way bet that I make because I had the money on the soft-way! The whole session had every shooter hitting hard ways, but the table got to crowded because of the screaming, one or two players were doing when they got paid on a point they had chips on!

    I colored up and left after making a nice profit, on my buy-in, I could see bad things happening because of the crowd that was now on the table! Bad bets have a way of making money for players that can follow a trend!
     
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  8. SevenOut, May 9, 2014

    SevenOut

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    Superrick... a nice series of numbers for the Full Monte system and that takes hardway action on every game!

    This kind of run of numbers is what we Craps Players would like to see more often... even from a dice whipper. Having the hardway thrown on a Come Out is always a disappointment... but they have not been used up. The 5's and 9's were also stepping up to the plate. Good game for a sharp player as yourself!

    I have seen some players having their hardways working on the Come Out. That is a lot more bankroll risk as I prefer to have them to be protected with a Place Bet. Sometimes you reconsider having them working when a hardway is thrown for point on the Come Out. I resist even then. You cannot catch them all by having all of your bets working after a Point, but in the scheme of things... someone reading this at the moment might just do that and found it has paid off more than it has lost.
     
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  9. superrick, May 10, 2014

    superrick

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    Working the hard ways can turn into a little nightmare, if you have them parlayed up. Now the reason I'm saying that is very simple, you never know if the shooter is trying to make the seven on the come out, now some may find that to be a very stupid statement to make, and others can see the wisdom in that statement. Even the random rollers are always trying to make sevens on the come out rolls.

    I play on a lot of All Tall All Small tables, where you never want to see a seven rolled, and find that for some strange reason you will have a totally random shooter sometimes putting together a string of sevens on the come out rolls. There's also times when you will see a random rollers unknowingly set the dice to a all seven set, and guess what happens next! If you feel strongly that the shooter will make a hardway that you have parlayed up, but you do not want to take the chance you can always hop it for one roll on the come out, knowing that it's a stupid bet.


    Basically, its all about how I feel the shooter is rolling hardways, there have been times that there are so many hardways being rolled by one shooter, it's worth the chance of a come out seven to leave your one hardway working, but when you have more then one parlayed up that is a different story!
     
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  10. rudeboy99, May 19, 2014

    rudeboy99

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    It kind of depends what type of "gambling experience" a player is seeking. I'm sure most would agree that the Props are bad for the players %-wise. Most punters I know don't bet solely favorites at the horse track. I like parleying the occasional hard-way and win or lose I don't get too upset. Just last week a guy doubled up a $1 bet on 12 on my game and popped it for $900 "and up",(2nd time in 30+ years it came thru). To quote the movie Rounders," if you don't take a chance occasionally, you're whole f****n' life's a grind." The secret to Props, IMHO,is not to rely on the bets or the outcome as any significant % of your betting B.R.:cool:
     
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  11. KokomoJoe4, May 19, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

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    Ya gotta love that! Rudeboy, did you recommend he let a hundred or so sit and try one more time?
     
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  12. rudeboy99, May 20, 2014

    rudeboy99

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    Naw...I didn't want to ixnay our oketay...the guy was super nice, kicked down the shooter a couple of greenies and handed the crew in a C-note...wish they were all like that...:D
     
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  13. fourtyfour, May 25, 2014

    fourtyfour

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    If you roll them then bet them.
     
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  14. AdvantageCrapsPlayer, Jun 22, 2014

    AdvantageCrapsPlayer

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    If I had a 410 4 that was hit and I advance to $25, collecting $3, I will put that $3 on H4 and say it hits hard 4. I drop $1 and Advance PB on 4 to $75 and i drop $1 and press the HW 4 to $25. Now its the CO roll and ? is do i work the $25 or the PB of $75 on the 4. Not knowing if the shooter is trying to hit a CO7 or not or not knowing if the 7 is ready bc the game just halted so dealers could pay the PL and odds and a new CO roll is about to roll. I have the decision to make here. What I do is look at the payout of a 4 being rolled it it was not the point. $74 four pays $150 less the vig. So i usually will Hop the H4 on comeout for roughly a $150 payout. so a $5 Hop H4 works fine.. PB of 4 is off as well as HW of $25 is off. Sometimes i will add the payout to the H4 $25 x 8=$200, so ill add $6 to the Hop $5 of H4 for a total of $11 hop H4 on C.O. Im willing to lose this 11 and Im hoping if a 4 is rolled its 2-2.

    If its 2-2 H4, it pays $30 x 11= $330 and still up. I now press my HW and PB and put $$$ in rack and try to advance this H4 and PB of 4 as fast as possible. If Im up big that day i also Hop 3-1 easy four. as Its huge to me not to miss a progression on a CO roll as what seems small to you is means hundreds/thousands later in progression $$$. Hell 2 Co 4's that one missed progression on could be a bet staying at $225 as opposed to collecting $2025 and down on 4 hits of the 4.

    Just telling off of experience when i do nothing on the CO roll to advance the 4 or 10 built up it kills me later. I watched thousands go by bc of sitting back and doing nothing on Co roll only to see 2-2 hit on a 4 that i had pressed thru prior wins...
     
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  15. DiceSteve44, Jul 4, 2014

    DiceSteve44

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    I seem to throw Hardways in streaks. I rarely bet on them.
    I have made many players nice profits. I do not hit them regularly enough to bet on them often. When I hit a Hardway, it is usually followed by a few more soon, only if the throw last a bit longer.
     
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  16. basicstrategy777, Jul 5, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    That's the way it works.

    777
     
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  17. $nakeEye$, Jul 6, 2014

    $nakeEye$

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    DiceSteve44 -

    HOW can one possibly expound on the totally intelligent response offered by 777 -

    " Words of Wit " - " Profound Professes " - " ???????????????? " -

    READ what you SAID - and the ANSWER lies within -

    WHEN YOU BEGIN to throw the HW's - BEGIN to BET on them -

    " TAKE WHAT the table is giving you " -

    Succinct advice from " The SAGE " - et others from the former JPE board / forum / web-site !

    $...eE..$
     
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  18. rudeboy99, Sep 15, 2014

    rudeboy99

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    I always bet pretty much the minimum on hard 6 & 8 with a full parley if they hit. Then off coming out with $1 each on the hoppers. Thats what I recommend to beginning players as well...gives them a pretty good bang for the buck.
     
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  19. direct007, Apr 16, 2015

    direct007

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    I'm new to this forum, but now new to craps. Been playing for 32 years now. I enjoy playing the hardways and have parlayed them up to as much as $1000 each on the 6 and 8 but never hit when they got that high. I also make sure to bet the place bets as to cover in the event the numbers come in the easy way. Last night at Caesar's Atlantic City, after cashing in for $200 and being up and down for a good part of an hour, an old timer started rolling. Just throwing the dice, not dice setting at all...threw a total of 5 hard 8's of which I was on for 4 of them and made 4 numbers which gave any of the fire betters a win of 25 to 1. I cashed out for over $3k. First time in 32 years that I've seen 5 of the same Hard way come in during a roll (on top of that, no easy 8's, all hard during the course of his roll). Exciting was an understatement. Wish I had a crystal ball and would have parlayed. Instead I pressed from $15 to $25, $25 to $50, $50 to $100, $100 to $200 and hit it. $200 to $400 and he 7'd out.
     
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  20. KokomoJoe4, Apr 16, 2015

    KokomoJoe4

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    Congrats on the obviously nice winner. Nice chunk of change.

    Had a pretty ugly day yesterday myself. Very conservative play, but way more losers than winners. Some days not much goes well.
     
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