Best Dice Videos on Utube

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. James Hall, Jan 6, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    of course we all know that hunting dogs must BE TRAINED and also worked / practiced quite a lot
    to get the most out of them . No dog was ever born knowing exactly what the owner wants him to do
    just saying
     
    #21
  2. tabletop123, Jan 6, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    What I am saying is that the "Top" players excelled because they were always in Action! Let me exemplify things for you......Mike Eufemia ( you can Google him) was a TERRIFIC "Straight Pool" player! I mean the guy would LITERALLY run 100 balls just for breakfast!

    If I recall correctly, his "High Run" was something like 500 balls or so! The guy used to PRACTICE endlessly to obtain a high skill level.

    HOWEVER, as great a player as he was, he absolutely STUNK in competition, & was so fearful of gambling ,that he was purported to actually "Shake, tremble", when playing for money ( as is said the SAME for Irishshitter on Heavy's forum). Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a stab at Old Shitter! Lol

    Now, I won't get into a pissing contest with you, but all of this bullshit about practice till you puke, & train, train, train is useless if you don't possess "heart", grit, killer instinct, dogged determination!

    A TRUE test of one's skill, & determination is when you are down to your last "Bullet", & just ONE mistake means INSTANT DEATH, no food, going home broke.......Better still, NOT ONLY going home broke, but how about this........Going broke & having money WIRED to you so that you CAN make it back home!

    It takes a "Special" person (talent) to influence the dice, & MOST just are NOT gonna be "Gifted" enough, no matter how much,Or hard they train, practice!

    Yes, I agree that you DO need to learn fundamentals, & how to PROPERLY execute, but let's CUT THE SHIT......Most people are NOT gonna excel as Dice Influencers, & the few that REALLY know how to influence the dice, walk a very thin line when it comes to SUCESSFULLY masking his/her skills in the Casinos!

    This is why I have always said That Crowds, Partnerships ( such as two or more SKILLED players playing TOGETHER), or long rolls , bring unwanted attention! ( I did NOT say "Heat")

    This is why I laugh hysterically at these "Team" trip reports that I USED to read on CERTAIN forums!

    First of all, no TEAMS, groups, two man partnerships, are gonna last long BEATING the Casinos, & secondly, skilled players in GROUPS is the stupidest shit I have EVER heard of!

    Now, this revelation is gonna offend SOME people on this forum, but TRUST & BELIEVE, I spent 15 years on the road QUIETLY duping lesser players, so I KNOW what it takes to SUCESSFULLY mask a skill, & the requirements for plodding along with total impunity!

    I claim NOTHING in regards to Dice Influencing, but I am a EXPERT ( maybe I should say "once was") at masking a skill, & some of the things that I read on these forums is..........Well, I think you know what I am NOT trying to say!

    Continued Success at the Tables!
     
    #22
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  3. James Hall, Jan 6, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    You said that most are just not gifted enough and eluded to the fact that very few are going to show much
    as far as influencing the dice
    that is true in any endeavor good black jack players , poker players , tennis players , pool players , baseball players , football players
    you name the game millions of kids every year start playing with the hopes of being good enough to be a professional
    how many kids start playing football in grade school with the NFL as part of their dream

    in any field maybe 2 to 3% MAKE THE GRADE why ? what did they lack that the cream of the crop had .
    The cream eat , sleep and dream their chosen endeavor every minute of every day
    Some of what many on this forum refer to as self proclaimed DI's is actually a pretty accurate term
    many of them have the dream but the dream is not enough

    again guys , you have to find somebody who has turned a dream into reality and find out how he did it
    a dream cannot be fulfilled until you set a deadline
    I guarantee you , it aint easy , it requires an investment of time , effort and energy
    without practice it is next to impossible , then compound the problem with NOT HAVING A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE TASK AT HAND
    I can tell you this , I can go 5 days without throwing dice and my game suffers
    Many of the Mesa guys can't see the difference but it is there in diminished number of throws
     
    #23
  4. James Hall, Jan 6, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Always in action , an absolute necessity to become a champion
    Ben Hogan once said he would practice till his hands would bleed , many on the tour didn't , he owned them
     
    #24
  5. James Hall, Jan 6, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    many might say craps ain't golf
    right , the only thing that changes is where and how you play
    and of course the size and shape of the balls
     
    #25
  6. twodicebilly, Jan 7, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Tabletop

    I have to agree that there is an awful lot of information
    on the net about throwing dice, and there are a good
    number of classes being offered...

    YOU surely can waste a good deal of money at the class
    if you are not honest with yourself in terms of is it helping.
    I know that, I was one of those guys.....

    Having said that if you pay attention in a real good class
    that teaches a shot you can make, it can help. I took
    one class and then a refresher on that class. When I
    took the refresher class something was pointed out to
    me that was a problem for me.... and it was and if I
    avoid that mistake.. my rolls are much better.

    I have found that one thing to be "the" key to making my
    shot work...
    I am not disagreeing with everything you have said here,
    I am just saying for me...I could not have gotten that
    off the internet.

    twodicebilly
     
    #26
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  7. driglaz, Jan 7, 2017

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    still waiting for that leaked security video footage of the pit and tables....
     
    #27
  8. tabletop123, Jan 7, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    True, but regardless of how many classes you take, you have to develop a toss that works for YOU! It may even entail MODIFYING a shot that you have learned in a Class!

    You might learn a three finger grip, & then experiment & find that a two finger grip works better for YOU!

    Listen.......These classes, schools, are only a building block , or fundamental to your success! For some people "Text Book" could very well spell disaster!

    The one's that TRULY excel, learn the basics, & then impliment their own particular style to accomplish the task. Allen Hopkins used a "Punch" stroke instead of the more conventional "School Taught" fluid stroke!

    He actually jabbed at the pool balls! They used to laugh at him because his stroke was so unorthodox! I personally watched him "Bust" a murderer's row line up of champions at the Wagon Wheel pool hall here in Georgia with that "fucked up" looking stroke!

    When Efren Reyes came over from the Philippines in 1982, they said he possessed one of the ugliest pool strokes EVER!
    At Red's tournament (in Houston, Texas), he flat-out "Busted" every champion that dared to "Match up", with the exception of Buddy Hall!

    Well, when it was all said, & done, those that mocked Efren's stroke initially, QUICKLY agreed that NOT ONLY was his stroke Deadly, but they also concluded that his stroke was poetry in motion, & it seemed as if he was playing a violin!

    You cannot underestimate something, & call it ugly, because YOU don't understand it, & the pool stroke that Efren uses is non- conventional, & I'll-advised by ALL that give Pool lessons!

    Learn the basics, & find out what works for YOU, even if it entails swaying away from what is conventionally taught!
     
    #28
  9. gargoil, Jan 7, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Yep.. What the TOP MAN said.
    People fail and complain because of the notion of over expectation. "I am going to take a class then I can RULE the tables". That is a farce notion. The class will give you the basics but then it is up to you to take the information and develop YOUR OWN SUCCESS. You have to work at it.

    Listen the bottom line is this. Your success will be determined by the amount of effort you put into it. That is true in anything and everything we do in life.
     
    #29
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  10. Onautopilot, Jan 8, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    I want to ask the DI people a question..........When the dice are in the air, and bouncing around on the table, how many different axis are the dice capable of rotating around?

    After you have your answer, you might want to reference "Rotating cubes in space" to make sure.
     
    #30
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  11. Onautopilot, Jan 8, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] sets structure category groups type theory algebra logic
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] notation categorise lie monoid permutation symmetry combining
    object proofs
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] types finite size
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] cube galois triangle
    Maths - Cube Rotation
    As an example of a permutation group (for an introduction to permutation groups see this page) we will look at a finite subset of the 3D rotation group SO(3), so we will look at all the rotation transforms of a cube that map it to itself. For information about 3D rotations see this page.

    We can study cube rotation using the various algebras associated with 3D rotations such as:

    but the aim on this page is to separate the properties of this rotation in a way that is not dependant on the properties of any specific algebra and instead brings out the higher level symmetries.

    Lets take as an example the rotation of a cube in ways that does not change its shape (i.e. multiples of 90° rotations about x, y or z) although we will keep track of the rotations possibly by markings on the faces of the cube. We could have chosen other platonic solids, other then a cube, such as a dodecahedron. These other platonic solids are described on this page.

    There are a number of ways to analyise this, one way is to number the vertices and track the effect of each rotation on these vertices.

    [​IMG]

    So a 90° rotation about each of the x, y or z axis could be defined as follows (as a cycle decomposition described on this page)

    x = rotation about x = (1, 4, 8, 5) (2, 3, 7, 6)
    y =rotation about y = (1, 5, 6, 2) (4, 8, 7, 3)
    z = rotation about z = (1, 2, 3, 4) (5, 6, 7, 8)

    We now need to work out all the permutations of these rotations.

    There are 24 made up of 1 identity element, 9 rotations about opposite faces, 8 rotations about opposite vertices and 6 rotations about opposite lines.

    number of rotations
    rotate about opposite faces [​IMG]
    9

    (3 for each pair of faces)

    rotate about opposite vertices [​IMG]
    8

    (2 for each pair of vertices)

    rotate about opposite lines [​IMG]
    6

    (one for each pair of lines)

    This gives 9 + 8 + 6 = 23 possible rotations of the cube, plus the identity element (leave it where it is giving 24 possible rotations in total.

    There is a quicker way to discover that there are 24 rotations. If we realise that there is a one to one correspondence between rotations and possible orientations of the cube, then all we have to do is count the possible orientations, for instance we could:

    • realise that there are 6 faces and so we can place it on each face in turn in 4 possible ways giving 6*4 = 24 possible orientations.
    • realise that there are 8 vertices and so we can place it on each vertex in a given position in 3 possible ways giving 8*3 = 24 possible orientations.
    Permutation Group of Cube
    This has 24 possible rotations, we can generate these by starting with the identity element and the 90° rotations about the x, y and z axis, then by combining these in different sequences we can generate all 24 permutations. In fact, as we shall see below, we only need to start with 2 permutations to generate all possible rotations.
     
    #31
  12. driglaz, Jan 8, 2017

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    the more you play does not mean the more you win....
     
    #32
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  13. lone irish digit, Jan 8, 2017

    lone irish digit

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    This is what I have been trying to convey to Koko and Linaway the last two years. To toss on axis (24 axis) is extremely difficult and is not 44% or 2.7% but rather it is almost impossible to toss on axis and the likes of Heavy, Koko, and Linaway have been scamming us poor innumerates over the years. The true on-axis percent as shown below has been verified by Barney now that he has been plucked from the timespace singularity.


    [​IMG]
     
    #33
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
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  14. James Hall, Jan 8, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    A couple guys came by yesterday and will be back again today around 2:00
    they described themselves as forum lurkers , as they had seen the term on the forum

    while here yesterday , one asked the question :
    "We have seen now what you do , is it possible for us to learn ? and does this always work"?

    My response drew a moment of silence then a broad smile from both
    ANYONE CAN LEARN THIS , IT'S HOW THEY APPLY IT THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE

    "OK fine but in your case does it ALWAYS WORK" ?

    another answer another short silence and an even bigger grin
    "IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK , BUT IT ALWAYS WORKS enough"

    they were on the table at Margaritaville sometime back when a couple of the Mesa guys were there
    Pat hit the 5 point fire bet TWICE
     
    #34
  15. Twelve4s, Jan 8, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    IMG_5856.JPG
     
    #35
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  16. Twelve4s, Jan 8, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    IMG_5863.JPG
     
    #36
  17. lone irish digit, Jan 8, 2017

    lone irish digit

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    OAP, hope you didn't reveal too much private craps info on public forum...
    James Hall, going down memory lane, the Margaritaville craps table was one of LID's favorite craps hangout.


    [​IMG]
     
    #37
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  18. FredP

    FredP Member

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    Sounds like Lineaway's stuff. Did you get his stuff?
     
    #38

  19. FredP

    FredP Member

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    Is she the one who slides down into a Margarita? Yeah baby!
     
    #39
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  20. Onautopilot, Jan 8, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    About 15 or so years ago when DC started getting a lot or attention on the internet, I started doing some research into it all.

    That included all the properties of the dice as rotating cubes in space, etc.

    At the time, Heavy was an active member of the old usnet forum. and the subject of "on axis" came up a lot. I decided to do the research then, and we had many heated conversations about the subject.

    I might have been considering dice properties before Lineaway had a clue. :)
     
    #40
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