Are Some Few Posters Ruining It For Others?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by FrankScoblete, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Pressit, Jun 18, 2015

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    That would be 40% of my sessions. I play, I win, I walk, my goal is to never stay longer than 60 to 90 minutes. If I win 40%, that means I lose 60%, but my losing sessions are cut extremely short, if I don't have my initial bets paid for before the 7 shows I'm gone. Why stay, it's just not my time, the casinos aren't going anywhere. I'll either go elsewhere, nice thing about LV plenty of casinos to visit, or I'll come back later.

    Not sure what you are referring to as, selling, giving away free info that guarantees you to win? I know of not such guarantees.

    This is my definition of DI: attempting to keep the 7 away for as long as possible, but eventually the 7 will appear, at which time you have to decide, do I stay or do I go. That is as simple as it gets.

    I just find it odd people are so opposed to the idea that certain combinations of dice sets, when tossed in a similar way, landing in within designated area, using equal energy can delay the 7. Sometimes we make things more complicated than what they really are. Do you not set your dice? Do you not utilize the same toss. Do you not change either of the aforementioned to conform to differn't table conditions? If you do then welcome to the world of DI. This DI thing is nothing new, I believe Stanford Wong mentions it in his book, and it has been talked about ever since. Over time the name has been changed, rhythm rolling, dice control, and probably other names I'm not aware of, but the goal remains the same. Does it work all the time, of course not, can you predict the next outcome of the dice, no, can it help your game, I don't know, I just know it has helped my game.
     
    #101
  2. FrankScoblete, Jun 18, 2015

    FrankScoblete

    FrankScoblete Member

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    Grizzoolla is right. I do mention my books. In the past I did make a point of offering free books to folks on this (and many other) web sites. I will still do that.

    I've given away over a thousand books in the last year or so. I have no problem continuing (until my warehouse runs out of them that is).

    So when I mention a given book, I will offer a free copy to the first group of people who ask for it. You will receive two books, The Virgin Kiss and the gambling book I am referring to. (Just let me know if you already have a copy of either of them.)

    I am sure plenty of people on this particular site will confirm that I have sent them free books.

    I have been very fortunate in my life with wife, children, in laws, grandchildren, and in my writing and teaching careers. As I tone down the 130 days of going to casinos each year and increase my other travels, I am out of the book selling business. You can find all of my books on Amazon.com, Kindle and at bookstores throughout the country.

    So Grizzoolla, thanks for upbraiding me.
     
    #102

  3. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I also play hoping to avoid all 7s.
    that is nothing new.

    I don't get why you find it hard to believe I have no desire to entertain any thoughts that anyone can alter the outcome of the dice, whether it be to roll 6s or just avoid the 7 for a couple of more rolls.

    Ive been watching dice hit tables for 30 something years.

    They bounce around and shoot all over the place.

    I will never believe anyone can alter that random outcome.
    That's how simple it is for me.

    Im not looking to fight with DI people, more power to you, if you believe in something, go with it.
    I will never believe it is possible unless someone shows me or I witness it.

    Its very simple. Ive watched dice in slow motion, I don't think anyone can change the laws of physics or gravity, or change the way the dice hit the table and move.

    to each his own.

    I hope you clean up at the tables, and if unknown to both of us, we are playing at the same table one day, I hope Im on your roll and if I have a monster roll, I hope you catch it also.
     
    #103
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  4. betwthelines, Jun 18, 2015

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    That's pretty much how simple it is for me also...in over 40 years of bank craps i have seen nothing but random rolls and some of these by some pretty damn adamant "DIers"...This plus the FACT that the casinos do not ban the practice leave me completely unconvinced of its efficacy, holding only for the theoretical possibility...but even at that only in the sense that "anything is possible"...
    "witness" what? i am not sure that witnessing anything would convince me of influence...in those 40+years i have seen many (tho not nearly enough!!) monster rolls...these prove nothing...what i would require is mathematical proof something like i have outlined in another thread... see

    http://www.crapsforum.com/threads/the-invisible-art-of-dice-control.9404/#post-64390

    and also upon which i amplified in post #38 in this thread

    http://www.crapsforum.com/threads/are-some-few-posters-ruining-it-for-others.9387/page-2

    i received some replies suggesting that such a trial is not practical...now granted such a test or similar --real details would need to be fleshed out by math peoples -- might even take a couple of years to perform but so what?? such a trial is not even that complicated nor IMO impractical and in fact could easily be unobtrusive to AND IN real, live, casino ACTION...Come on! really, arent you shooting dice anyway during this time?? i remain unconvinced that ANYONE GENUINELY INTERESTED IN PROVING DICE INFLUENCE could not organize such an endeavor.....ahhhh nail meet hammer! that's the question, isnt it?? From Day One skeptics have demanded REPLICABLE EVIDENCE...in the intervening MANY DECADES none has been forthcoming...this make me wonder if anyone is really all that interested in "proving" DI...
    here! here! with you 100% on that...to each his own...
    tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
     
    #104
  5. KokomoJoe4, Jun 18, 2015

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    There was a guy shooting recently here in Pittsburgh who would set the dice carefully, pick them up, then wail them down the table like he was on the radar gun. This guy made SO many nines it was scary. The table was so full of winning buy nines that the box was having a stroke.

    Doesn't appear as if this guy was following the recommend script for shooting.
     
    #105
  6. superrick, Jun 18, 2015

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    So you want to be a DI and you wonder what a DI shot should look like, I will save you the trouble of doing a search for any slow motion videos. Now some of these are just down right laughable and others were only produced to sell their schools. You should have no problem picking out the commercially done ones!


    On the commercially done ones, you will notice that you really can't see what is happening with the dice. It's their way of showing their future customers really nothing at all.

    Is there anybody you know in these videos?



















    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k467uPlLn3A


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkU458iCDiY&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hheh7c6J77Y&index=34&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOULZHKNo0&feature=youtu.be


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6NaIs8y_hE&index=37&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-R8XYUjhs&list=PL29EB7437F6533C12


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_wQN7MELc


    This guy found 172 videos on throwing the dice or dice control and put them all in one spot for your viewing pleasure and he surely saved me a lot of work!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrqyVrQWck&list=PL57YTXgE9UrKJJZsOGpdaFhWAEETRt-rU


    Lets not forget the one guy that had the best set-up for dice control, Aaron Hightower who went the extra mile to try to prove that dice control either work or it didn't. I have to give him a high-five for all of the work he put into it.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QS26ppbc8


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJwLtAORa0


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSfu5QDDVA


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM3qDV9Lz3Y


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTzwChYv0U


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-uMB17x4I
     
    #106
  7. Onautopilot, Jun 18, 2015

    Onautopilot

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    Thanks again for the free autographed books Frank!
     
    #107
  8. Onautopilot, Jun 18, 2015

    Onautopilot

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    I just wanted to confirm Frank's statement about offering anyone on this forum a free book / books. A while back Frank made the offer, and I accepted, with-in a few days, I received two autographed books via first class mail. I can't understand someone saying he is "hawking" his books on this forum for a profit, if he is giving them away.
     
    #108
  9. Pressit, Jun 18, 2015

    Pressit

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    This is what you are missing, your math is based on days of shooting. I don't lie as I have nothing to prove, but you do so let's look at your blast.

    To reach your 1500 days would take @ 4.12 years if one played 365 days a year. On a more realistic agenda, 3 days a week, it would take you, 9.62 years. I only visit LV 2 maybe 3 times a year and I stay 3 days at a time. To reach just your 60 day figure it would take me between 6.666 to 10 years. And to reach pumpkin, I'm looking at the year 2181.

    You can delay a 7, I never said this would prevent the 7 from ever appearing. If it did wouldn't my 40% winning look more like 100%? There appears to be an aire of superiority that small wins are not worth the time of day. Your not suggesting at your end of play and you found yourself up only $200, that you wouldn't take the money? You know you could always give it to the Sisters of the Poor or some other charity. They would be all to happy to accept such a meager sum.

    I was to understand LV locals are not known to bet pumpkins, or other large amounts on a regular basis? Aren't LV local fearful of getting bared from their local casinos if they win on a regular basis, or if they win to much? True or not true?

    Everyone gives Frank shit about one thing or another, but years ago I read one of his book where he talks about establishing a bankroll. Very sound advise which I was eventually able to accomplish. So preservation of my gambling bankroll is fundamental to my LV trips and other less favorable haunts. Pumpkins aside, I think I practice very sound money management practices.
     
    #109
  10. TDVegas, Jun 18, 2015

    TDVegas

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    If you claim to be advantage player, why you would not be in the casino as much as humanly possible? Who doesn't like money? Please don't tell me the wife won't let you--after all, the advantage play I outlined and the progression should make her more than happy when you bring home the big bacon with a Kelly progression. Please spare me the excuses on why you would not want to apply your skills to make more money playing craps.

    The problem with you is you don't know when you can do it, you don't know what you are rolling to gain the advantage and you don't know how to take maximum advantage of this so called claimed skill. Sounds fishy. Also sounds like you are random roller--or have just deluded yourself into thinking you are a dice controller.

    You are missing the entire concept of advantage play. You have the advantage over the casino. The only logical course of action would be to maximize that advantage.

    There are some 300+ casinos in and around Las Vegas and Nevada. Are you fearful of playing at them once a year and getting kicked out? LOL.

    It sounds to me like you are a casual player who thinks himself to be a dice controller. I highly doubt this to be true. If so you would track your rolls each time and come up with a game plan to maximize that skill. It's not that difficult to do.
     
    #110
  11. FrankScoblete, Jun 18, 2015

    FrankScoblete

    FrankScoblete Member

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    TD, I have not followed all the posts on this board so excuse me if I ask a question you may have answered already: Are you an advantage player? If so, what games?
     
    #111
  12. TDVegas, Jun 18, 2015

    TDVegas

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    and this whole thing of "it's not dice control, it's dice influence" is a crock of bull...

    A story
    2 years ago my headhunter sends me out for a job interview. I am an aquatic engineer. I get to the place of business and walk in and tell them who I am and I'm here for the interview. A gentleman brings me thru the kitchen and leads me to the back. I look confused and say "I am here for the aquatic engineer opening"....he says "yes, yes, here"......and shows me the dishwasher and says my shift is 11am-6pm.

    you guys have bought into this salesmanship of "dice control is too harsh so lets change it to dice influence so it sounds better". My example is extreme but does show the idiocy of how some get suckered by changing the words.
     
    #112
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  13. TDVegas, Jun 18, 2015

    TDVegas

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    Frank, the only advantage table games are poker and card counters at blackjack. Card counters get 86'd rather quickly. There is no such thing as an advantage craps player.
     
    #113
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  14. betwthelines, Jun 18, 2015

    betwthelines

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    SR, frankly I am not the least bit interested in these videos...they show me nothing...

    As i have tried to make clear, IF anyone actually does have a stake in actually proving the efficacy of DI, for me, they would have to do so mathematically and under casino conditions...indeed part of my wonderment is whether anyone really does have such a stake or is it all just smoke and seminars and books...

    i remain unconvinced that this is impractical or even that difficult IF ANYONE ACTUALLY WANTED TO DO SO (again, does anyone really??)...as i have outlined, it would, yes, take a considerable length of time --- but it would be time spent PRESUMABLY doing something one LOVES TO DO ---shooting craps and, further, shooting so with a presumed advantage!! so "cost" isn't a problem, right?...the casino bosses simply do not have a problem with someone bringing a notebook to the rail and tracking rolls...in fact i suspect they LOVE to see it!!! Let's see an expert DI practitioner assert his influence ----- "calls his (cumulative) shots", if you will, a paucity of 7s, or an abundance of 4s and 10s, for just a couple of examples ----- for two, live casino action, separate 5000 roll trials and see if the math offers any evidence of influence...this might even convince me but at a bare minimum would alter my current opinion on the matter which is that DI is all but impossible...it is not up to the skeptics to "prove" a negative, to "prove" that something cant be done, but rather the onus is on the proponents to offer replicable evidence that DI can be manifested...tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
    -g. geist: prove to me that i'm not gonna jump out that window
    --tom p: exactly...exactly...
     
    #114
  15. superrick, Jun 18, 2015

    superrick

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    TD,..I don't know where you came up with the 300 casinos. Yes there are around 300 tables I've been told but not 300 casinos to play in some of teh casinos in the state don't even have one table.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_casinos_in_Nevada

    I should be out playing craps,..but we have the Electric Daisy Carnival in town so there is no way that I'm playing.
     
    #115
  16. TDVegas, Jun 18, 2015

    TDVegas

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    Maybe 100-150 here in Vegas-Henderson-Mesquite to play craps? Maybe another 25-50 in Reno/Tahoe area? Maybe another 25 in the rest of the state. So I'm off a little. Still more than enough to ply the trade under the radar. The Venetian will accept a 1 million wager on a single hand of blackjack----I really don't think they are concerned about a craps player throwing around blacks and purples.
     
    #116
  17. Onautopilot, Jun 18, 2015

    Onautopilot

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    I seldom question the motive when someone gives me a gift, I just say thanks, and appreciate the gesture.
     
    #117

  18. 50/50

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    In some respects craps is similar to roulette. Both negative expectation games. In craps the players handle dice. In roulette the dealers handle the marble. Players attempt to guess the outcomes in either game. Players that are experts at tracking trends and gurus that are experts at a betting "Method" and "Strategy" should do equally well in either game.
     
    #118
  19. TDVegas, Jun 18, 2015

    TDVegas

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    Are you serious? You've fallen prey to the #1 gambler fallacy. What you are suggesting is that previous results somehow influence future rolls and a person can wager accordingly. Can't disagree more.
     
    #119

  20. 50/50

    50/50 Member

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    Ah .. no. I'm saying that players that study previous results and bet according to those results should do equally well at either roulette or craps.
    In either game they will win some and lose some but not stay ahead in the long run. There is no proven statistical advantage in either game beyond those purported by the authors and gurus. It's not even a 50/50 proposition. :) It's a negative expectation game. That's why players lose if they stick around too long, and why gurus encourage their "students" to run whenever they are a few bucks ahead.
    If there were an advantage there is no need to stop playing unless too tired to stay awake, under the influence, getting pit heat, late for a date, need to catch a bus, blah, blah, blah.
     
    #120