Are Some Few Posters Ruining It For Others?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by FrankScoblete, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Pressit, Jun 17, 2015

    Pressit

    Pressit Member

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    I see the problem. DI doesn't mean you can call a number and roll that number at will, that would be DC. DI, as the name implies you are using a technique to influence the dice, not control the dice. If someone could control the dice they could certainly hurt the casino's bottom line. IMHO, DI is exerting influence over the dice to hold off the 7.

    Here is a short story. Linaway has this program on dice properties. I know some people have different opinions of Linaway, personally I like him, but his program is nothing short of amazing, and something that needs to be consumed several times , I read it 3 times, before the lights start to come on. I have recorded 20 pages, 300 rolls to a page = 6000 rolls, using 10 of Linaway's prescribed dice sets; Linaway more sets. As you would imagine the 6 & 8 dominate for most sets, but there were 2 dice set where the 5 & 9 came out on top with 4 and 10 closely following the 6 $ 8. With Linaway program you send him an spread sheet consisting of 72 rolls using a prescribed dice set. Linaway will run the numbers and send you a detailed report . Of the 72 rolls I only had three 7's, two were natural, one was a PSO. OK, let's call that a fluke. But what about my 6000 rolls. The most 7's I rolled per page of 300 rolls was 18, of which 14 natural, the most PSO, PPSO, PPPSO, etc, I ever rolled was 5. Now Linaway's program is set up for on-axis tosses, and unbeknown to Linaway I was tossing off-axis. Granted all these tosses were on my home 12 ft. rig, which has a neutral bounce, so all the distraction found in the casino are absent, and real money isn't used. However I have used these same techniques at a number of LV casinos and it has proven successful. No I'm not raking 10 of thousand of $$$ of the table, but I have a 40% plus winning experience, which has grown my bank roll, especially in the last 18 months. I'm a results ordinated type of person, so if something work I continue to work it until something better comes along. Nothing has.
     
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  2. Onautopilot, Jun 17, 2015

    Onautopilot

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    The truth and reality......"I'm not telling you exactly what happened, I'm just telling you how I remember it!"

    While prospecting in the Sierras one day, I spotted a huge bear coming up the creek bank, must have been 500 pounds or more. I dropped my gear and climbed the closest tree, the first limb was at least 10 feet off the ground, but I leaped and grabbed it. I made it to the top of the tree, and sat there for at least two hours. I couldn't see where the bear went, but finally came down, and made it back to camp...where I had left my 44 magnum pistol.

    That's how I remember it, and if I were writing about it, that is how I would portray the events!

    Now, the reality.....The tree limb might have been just 6 feet off the ground, and the huge bear might have just been a really big raccoon, the distance, and obscured view, might have come into play. It might just have been 10 minutes in the tree, time gets distorted when you think you are about to die! But that's not how I remember it!

    I'm not telling you what actually happened, I'm just telling you how I remember it!

    Sometimes there is a fuzzy line between fact and fiction....I think.

    I enjoyed reading your book Frank, and I just assumed that is how you remembered it. :)
     
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  3. Liman

    Liman Member

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    explain this to me, you are experiencing a 40% win experience and you aren't pressing your bets to where you could make 10 thousand dollars?

    see, I don't get any of that.

    If you are certain that's how much you will win, why not mortgage everything you have and start betting 1000 dollar chips only.

    why is anyone selling info(or worse, giving it away for free) that will almost guarantee they will win at a gambling table?

    in the world I live in, I give money away. I donate a certain amount to sloan Kettering, breast cancer, and one charity that benefits sick children.(please forgive me if I misspelled sloan)

    this will go on and on forever, I don't believe for a split second anyone who thinks they can force less sevens, make numbers, from the way they toss, well, I don't believe it.
    I have never seen it, mentioned this 100 times here.

    These type of posts are so redundant, I feel like Im wasting space here,(bandwidth) but keep getting pushed into making the same remarks over and over again.
    Noone shows me they have any influence over dice, no one has ever done it at the tables Ive been at, nothing that cant be looked at as anything but random.

    I wish you nothing but success with your influencing, perhaps you are the luckiest gambler alive, that I can believe.
     
    #83
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  4. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    and this is where DI, DC claims fall apart. These guys are claiming advantage play to the tune of astronomical percentage gains but they aren't pressing their bets over the course of months/years of play with such advantage. They are content to walk out with $200 rather than $2,000 or $20,000 with the exact same play. Just doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever. Or does it make sense because it's fleeting, random, up and down, 7 outs do happen quickly...and they do lose just like random players.

    I'll say it until I'm blue...if you claim to have an edge over the casino with your play and you are not using some type of Kelly progression in conjunction with such advantage to increase your bankroll and winnings...then you are mistaken about your edge or you can't see reality.--or are fibbing. Pick 1.

    It can't be "I don't like too much money or more money"
     
    #84
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  5. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    If this was true and you were capable of doing this--then an iron cross strategy with a slow, methodical build up to banana or pumpkin chips ($1,000) and then a build up to chocolate ($5,000) chips would by the only logical course of action. Of course this implies that you KNOW you can hold off on the 7 appearing as you seem to claim.

    There may be other strategies that would work better (I'm sure there are a few here who would know)...but the point taken is the ONLY logical course is to up the limits in conjunction with bankroll and what you have already pocketed.

    I still call bogus on these DI claims. Follow the money---it doesn't lie.

    Day 1-60 $5 chips (40% win)
    Day 60-120 $10-$15 (40% win)
    Day 120-180 $25 chips (40% win)
    Day 180-240 $25-$100 (40% win)

    Day 900-960 $500 chips (40% win)

    Day 1500-1560 (pumpkins, cranberries, chocolates, etc.) --40% win

    what am I missing here??
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  6. Onautopilot, Jun 17, 2015

    Onautopilot

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    Holding off the 7 means you are rolling some other number / numbers, more than expectation. It would not take very long to identify those numbers, if in fact, it was happening. Then construct your betting strategy accordingly. But with a 7 to roll ratio of anything over 8-1, the Iron cross, as you mention, would work well.
     
    #86
  7. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    preferably with bigger chips as your bankroll progresses over time until you are tossing Barneys?

    I just don't buy what these guys are trying to sell
     
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  8. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    DI would also hurt the casino's bottom line in the manner you describe it. In fact I would argue moreso because there are a lot more of them. (so claimed)
     
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  9. FrankScoblete, Jun 17, 2015

    FrankScoblete

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    Good questions. Some dice controllers and card counters freeze when bets get too high for them. Doesn't matter how much money they have or are worth. They see money in absolute terms. I do cover this in a few of my books. Others are overly aggressive; generally they get hammered sooner or later.

    But there are some that do actually increase their bets as time passes.
     
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  10. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    I call crock on that---increased betting will be nothing more than a correlation to the bankroll you have amassed or are amassing. We aren't talking about going from $5 to $1,000 or even $5 to $25 in one jump. We are talking about a slow, methodical progression (5-6-7-8-9-10.....) like top tier poker players, golfers, tennis pros and just about any other type of situation where one has achieved a skill. The "shaky hands" excuse just reinforces the BS that the DI community spews. It's your "easy out" excuse, Frank. Doesn't hold water in my view. None of the DI'ers here ever mentioned "nervous hands" as a reason for holding back--they really have no rational excuse for holding back other than "I don't like to win too much"....is it a sleight on their manhood to do so?
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  11. FrankScoblete, Jun 17, 2015

    FrankScoblete

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    Doesn't matter what anyone mentions; many advantage-players do have an aversion to higher bets. Some don't.
     
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  12. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    Really? Is that why card counters will suddenly jump bets from $10 to $100 or more to take advantage of the count? Where is the risk aversion?

    Truth be told Frank, it just reinforces the idea that DI and DC is a fictitious practice conjured up by those who have now taken to selling systems, books, schools and anything else in the internet age.

    Congrats. You won. Enough suckers have bought in. It's a great thing, eh?..the world wide web.
     
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  13. FrankScoblete, Jun 17, 2015

    FrankScoblete

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    Not really what you are saying. Advantage players have their own value in terms of how much they can bet.

    I know plenty of advantage-players who do not have any qualms about "getting the money out." In fact, I write about that exact thing in my book I Am a Card Counter: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Blackjack!
     
    #93

  14. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone on this point.
    I don't think natural aversions to higher risk gambling is only a problem with DI/DS players.
    I see it all the time with friends and relatives.
    My wife will play 45 cents each pull on a penny slot.(I don't need to be lectured on the shitty payouts of slots and why does anyone play them, my wife earns a lot of money she can spend it on anything she wants, slot machines, Gucci, or coach, and I encourage her to enjoy our money while we are both vertical), and if she hits a 300 dollar bonus, she is totally reluctant to increase her bets.
    It was like that when she played blackjack also.
    Shed win 8 straight hands, and only increased to 10 or 15 dollars from 5 dollars.
    Some call it stupidity, but I know its just a fear.
    People cant do it.
    their adrenaline pumps and they break into a sweat when their bets get to a point where it will hurt them emotionally to lose.
    I cant explain what Ive seen, but Im sure there are doctors that could explain this phenomenon.

    I think Franks point is valid.

    But.

    Experienced DI craps players should be way past any fears by the time they achieve a toss that they feel would make them more money than the average player.
    If they haven't learned to pounce on winning throws, and their confidence is not evident, that proves to me they lack the confidence in their toss, and are still in fear of losing larger bets because they think its just a coincidence they are winning every toss.(if they thought the DI tosses were on, they would have all the confidence they need, anything else doesn't sit right with me, no excuses.
    the entire reason/practice/concept/theory of DI tossing is to win. its not an ego thing, and DI shooters should be there to win on their tosses, not pressing bets to mind boggling bets show their lack of belief)

    not sure if that makes sense, Im trying to explain what I mean.
     
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  15. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    Absolutely. Another farce is why aren't DI's plying their skills more often? If you have the edge and considered yourself an advantage player, why are you not living in Vegas and why aren't you in the casino 5 days a week. You'd rather punch your time card 9-5? and be satisfied with your 2 week vacation.

    I don't buy the exhaustion BS either. You are playing for an hour or so, and maybe actually shooting the dice in terms of minutes. There is physical exhaustion? or mental exhaustion?

    I know if it was me, every opportunity to be in the casino making money is something I would relish.

    If I was to believe Frank's BS about fear of bigger bets..then I would overcome that by playing more often instead. Still small bets but instead of playing once or twice a week I would play 5 times a week.
     
    #95
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  16. Onautopilot, Jun 17, 2015

    Onautopilot

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    I can kind of understand Frank's position that some DI's can't make the transition from smaller bets to increased ones. To fully exploit the DC skill, if there is such a thing, one would have to become an accomplished "business" person. This takes foresight, initiative, planning, and a fair degree of intelligence. People that possess those attributes, seldom buy "casino gambling strategies".....but some of them do offer them for sale. :)
     
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  17. Grizzoola, Jun 17, 2015

    Grizzoola

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    Ever notice how, every other post FS makes, he refers to "one of my books"? In his last post, he even cites a title. The guy is on here only to promote his books. I'll hand it to him; he's a salesman par excellence on the level of Obie1. TD, et al., keep up the good work. The more this guy tries to defend himself, the more shallow he looks, as he keeps hawking his books.
     
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  18. 50/50

    50/50 Member

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    What the hay happened to "Okay, I am going to follow my beautiful wife's advice."?
    I thought he was going to pick up his marbles and go. Apparently book sales are more important.
     
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  19. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2015

    TDVegas

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    If, as Frank says advantage players don't want to up their bets...what other course of action could or should be followed to exploit the advantage to the fullest?

    Frank?

    Living in Vegas, I can go downtown and 10 casinos are at arms length. If a table at Binions is crowded, I walk over to Fremont---or Golden Nugget or 4 Queens or The D. If downtown isnt working, i can drive 10 minutes to find 10 other casinos. What is a DI doing with maybe 1 or 2 casinos within an hours drive and the table has multiple players? Standing around waiting for your 1 shot to roll every 45 minutes and performing miracles? Leaving and going home and trying another day? Sitting in the coffee shop waiting, drinking Sanka until you get constipated?

    Why wouldn't you put yourself in a position where you have the best opportunity to perform your magic? It's like an oil rigger who lives in Florida. A mountain climber who lives in Minnesota. An Eskimo living in the desert.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
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  20. FrankScoblete, Jun 18, 2015

    FrankScoblete

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    I've written about this in (uh oh) many books.
     
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