All Tall Small/Fire Bet

Discussion in 'Prop Bets & Side Bets' started by Mike Errickson, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. Onautopilot, Apr 7, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    I have not seen a 6 point made here at my local casino, and I am up there a lot.. I have seen a couple of 5 points over time though.

    I have seen them paying a 6 point fire bet in Vegas, but wasn't playing at the time.

    It's a rare event.

    Over the years, I am sure I have rolled more than a few myself, and seen many others...before there ever was a fire bet on the table. But I was always satisfied with the chips in my rack after those rolls anyway!

    I once held the dice for well over an hour, and am pretty sure I made every point many more times than necessary for a fire bet win. The table wasn't crowded, and the rolls went pretty fast. That was the time that the casino closed at 6:00 am. and the pit critter, let it run past closing time, but eventually said the next decision was gonna be closing time. I didn't get to finish the hand, made my point, and they handed me back all my place, come, and odds bets on the table....probably made more money that way, so I didn't complain. :)

    Funny how you can remember in detail those kind of nights, hu?
     
    #21
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  2. betwthelines, Apr 7, 2017

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    i tried googling this again but could not find it but i am pretty sure it is true since i saw it on the internet </:^)

    casinos do not count beans based upon how many times they have to or the time it takes to do those infrequent payouts...and besides just initially setting up every fire bet now can take up more time than one likes...and then of course there is that initial 7 that often (indeed one out of every 6 times) further delays the action...besides such data is more granular than necessary.

    No. casinos count beans and analyze craps policies based primarily upon rolls per hour...in this one vegas casino that had put it in but got rid of the fb, their rolls per hour went down from something like 117 to 98!!! after they put the bet in (initial dealer - and player -unfamiliarity with the bet possibly skewed this data a bit but this also was undoubtedly accounted for)

    certainly they made nice profit on the bet itself but this drop in roll frequency was determined as waay too costly for them than the high HA of the fb was worth.

    one would think that they know the same affect on rph obtains for the center bets but most of these are now so well-established---the earliest historical craps layouts that i have seen all have hardways and even horn bets on them---and popular that trying to remove them would just no longer fly in the marketplace...o, i am sure there was some grumbling when the fb was removed but doing so was much more feasible, given its rather recent appearance and its somewhat of a novelty even still than messing with the center bets would ever be.

    tom p
     
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  3. von duck, Apr 8, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    I've seen many days that bet never had to be paid, at any table l played on. Not even the 25 for one. Can't believe any casino would give it up. Seems a huge money maker, to me, but none of it FROM me.
     
    #23
  4. betwthelines, Apr 8, 2017

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    yes, by itself i am sure you are correct.

    however it is nonetheless a fact that some casinos have indeed "given it up"...they are looking at more than individual bets when making their determinations.

    see post #22 in this thread for a very plausible explanation as to why the bet has been removed from some layouts

    tom p
     
    #24
  5. Settingcanthurt, Apr 8, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

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    Why shut it down? Just place a firebet, counting, date/time puck out for the cameras and do the review. When they bring down the checks just pick it up.
     
    #25
  6. Settingcanthurt, Apr 8, 2017

    Settingcanthurt

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    I just got my bill of over $3200 Fed and State. Better then last year.
     
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  7. von duck, Apr 8, 2017

    von duck

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    Seems to make since, maybe even cents, also.
     
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  8. von duck, Apr 8, 2017

    von duck

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    I'll have to check with FredP, but I think this this is an okay spot to apply the term "Whores".
     
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  9. basicstrategy777, Apr 8, 2017

    basicstrategy777

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  10. von duck, Apr 8, 2017

    von duck

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    Went to the wizard site, his calculations are the same as what was in your post. Read the part about how he arrived at the solution, and I'm with you, leave that shit to the experts, I'll take his word for it. Thanks.
     
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  11. von duck, Apr 8, 2017

    von duck

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    Somebody needs to proofread shit before they print it. Steve Beauregards, ASS ! This is SO damned bad. A point of THREE. Okay EXPERT! Ha, Ha, Ha. Really bad.
     
    #31
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  12. Mr.Dice, Apr 8, 2017

    Mr.Dice

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    Welcome to the forum Mike. I just returned from a trip to Vegas and was doing real well playing the All Tall Small bet. However, I spent too much of my time at the Hooters casino looking at all the sexy legs and shapely bodies walking around and only half paying attention to the dice on the craps table there. My bankroll reflected that. Did I mention pretty faces too?. Anyway there are a bunch of casinos that offer this bet. The next day, I was inside Harrah's playing a much more serious and focused game and doing really well.. I was up on all the ATS bets with a quarter on each. I hit all the Tall numbers and had the 2 knocked out as well. The only number left was the 3!.. I was doing so well until the new to the game player amateur drunk loudmouth walked up behind and bumped into me.. causing me to seven out (damn it). Then the sexy cigarette lady dressed as a bunny walked by and gave me a smile
     
    #32
  13. Onautopilot, Apr 8, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    I'm sure it was a typo, and not caught. No big deal, I fixed it.
     
    #33
  14. von duck, Apr 9, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    If you think it's a typo, just go to the learn now to play craps link that he gives you. I am pretty sure you will agree, this guy is totally incompetent. Some errors are just too "BAD" to be passed off as typos. Am I the only one that reads this stuff? Go to that link, it's pretty funny. Well, does anybody know less then Steve Beauregard?
     
    #34
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  15. driglaz, Apr 9, 2017

    driglaz

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    seven reset.
     
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  16. Twelve4s, Apr 9, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    When you pick up the dice, instead of "baby needs new shoes," you can say, " IRS has got my shorthairs."

    Everyone will be rooting for ya!
     
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  17. Preacher, Aug 1, 2017

    Preacher

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    I played the Fire Bet for the first time at Boomtown New Orleans. Every other casino I've been to has the All-Tall-Small (ATS).

    Now that I've tried it, I prefer the Fire Bet, since it requires hitting 3 or more unique points. That lines up with my craps strategy anyway, using pass line and come bets with 5x to 10x odds. My dice set and throw is designed to hit points.

    The ATS requires that I hit a 2, 3, 11, and 12, which I never throw intentionally. So it requires a missed throw that does not result in a 7-out. Or I need to use a different dice set, also increasing the likelihood I 7-out.

    Also, the ATS bet loses anytime a 7 is thrown, even on a come out roll. Whereas, the Fire Bet is unaffected by a come-out 7.
     
    #37
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  18. random_roller, Aug 1, 2017

    random_roller

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    Most casinos I have been to that offer the Fire Bet require 4 different point numbers to be made by the shooter before the Fire Bet is a "winner". A few casinos such as Grand Victoria (Elgin, IL) will pay a Fire Bet when 3 or more different point numbers are made, but the pay schedule is dramatically lower at 5 & 6 different point numbers made (3 = 7 for 1, 4 = 30 for 1, 5 = 150 for 1, 6 = 300 for 1).

    https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/

    Yes, the ATS bets get knocked off on ANY 7, but numbers needed to complete a sequence (2-6 or 8-12) can be rolled at any point, including the come out roll(s). Not so for the Fire Bet, which requires the shooter to throw the number twice (1st time to establish it as the point, 2nd time to make the point). Also, an otherwise "lousy" zero point roll can still result in the All Small or All Tall being made. So, a roll of 4, 2, 3, 5 6, 7 is a winner for the All Small, even though no point was made.
     
    #38
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
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  19. DeMango, Aug 1, 2017

    DeMango

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    Fire Bet Blows
     
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  20. Onautopilot, Aug 1, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    Only when it loses, and loses, and loses.......:)
     
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