After 20, 30 Years Playing: Ahead or Behind?

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by Grizzoola, Jul 5, 2013.

  1. basicstrategy777, Jul 9, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    Felon.......You are entitled to your own opinons....you are not entitled to your own facts.

    Your positions are built on sand and not supportable.

    Your way to play is no better or worse than anyone else. If you are lucky you win....if you are not lucky you lose.

    Stop pontificating from a 'church' that has no followers and spewing positions that are not supportable.

    You are not taken seriously, by most, because what you say is supported by your 'facts' , which are easily proven to be in error.

    You persist in going down a path that you have been shown by many people on many forums, to be a wrong path; Yet you persist. For this reason I call you a fool.

    It's fine to tell us your system of play....it is not fine to to support your way to play with falsehoods.

    IMHO.

    777
     
    #21
  2. basicstrategy777, Jul 9, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    Pam...You have shown alot of moxie writting that post; not many here would admit to what you said, but you know it is true for most.

    I believe the most important quality a gambler can have is discipline and without it you are dead.

    Craps is a very, very tough game. It is a fun game and the best game in the house. If you can rein it in, and still have fun playing and be disciplined, you should be OK.

    One of the best rules in life and in gambling is....to know when to quit. You are bright enough to know what is going on.

    Good luck to you.

    777
     
    #22
  3. Grizzoola, Jul 9, 2013

    Grizzoola

    Grizzoola Member

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    As the OP, I asked this question in good faith, not as a troll. Actually, it'd better if it were a poll. "Ahead/ Yes,No: _____ Behind/Yes, No: _____." Even then the "sample" on here is too small. A real sample would be all craps players, probably globally, not just the U.S. Then, as 7Out says, "years" is inaccurate. It's the frequency of play. How to measure that may be impossible. I just wanted to see if the math bears up against actual players. Probably naive & deserving of some sarcasm from 7Out. It may be like the song says, "...the answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind."

    I thank all who responded in the spirit I asked the question. I do have a question of falcon: If PL/O & Come/O lose 67% & win 33% of the time, does that mean all the other bets lose 33% & win 67% of the time? I lack the math skills of all of you & maybe this, too, is a naive question. Or, maybe falcon simply says the other bets lose less than the PL/O & Come/O. Maybe that answer is "...blowin' in the wind," as well. I'm also getting OT.

    Anyway, thanks.
     
    #23
  4. Lifeisacrapshoot, Jul 9, 2013

    Lifeisacrapshoot

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    Thank you 777 for that very thoughtful note. I really appreciate what you said. Your words touched me.
    Lifeisacrapshoot (Pam)

     
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  5. SevenOut, Jul 9, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    ********

    Pam... you have passed from a period of being a Craps Degenerate, as I know personally, and now are in the realm of a PROFESSIONAL CRAPS PLAYER! You understand that you have to be able to quit, Cold Turkey and walk at any time. A wonderful life's story about the game for those who also may be too embarrassed to admit that Craps is a game with a "hook". I would stand next to you at any Craps Table... as we just WATCH and STUDY the players and dealers. When you can watch a Craps game and NOT press up against the rail... you have the credentials and credibility for a title of PCP... Professional Craps Player. They are few and far in between. Welcome. You have passed into a level where Craps is just something you might do and not feel to play by impulse. You will know... and I mean the sweaty palms and quickened heart beat no longer are your Craps partners. Girl... a big hug and have a big hoot for now on!

    Now back to business.

    777... You are stealing lines from a politician, but still a nice application in your Post! I was a bit disappointed to see that you would take Falcon's handle and make it into a personal insult by changing some letters. You are better than that. This is what I call "Playing on a level table with honest dice". I have had some personal attacks in the past on the Forum and I try to respond with my experience and the power of an honest response. I hope you recall my "50% of us think the other 50% are the nut cases"...

    Grizzoola... I liked your second paragraph! When you use Common Sense or Logic in a debate it makes things interesting. I still will not make the play, but I am the other 50% of nut cases happy with what my game has developed into.

    Do not regret starting this Post. Watch the number of hits and know that you might have created something you may have lost control of the main topic... and slowly develop it over time and change the title. Polls lie and you are right, there are not enough of a population to get anything out of it.

    If we all play fair and present our cases with reason... I will moon you all.
     
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  6. jimmatt_43, Jul 9, 2013

    jimmatt_43

    jimmatt_43 Member

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    Hi Pam,
    Hope you are well and happy and keep things under control without much trouble.
    I haven't had a problem so far with gambling but have to watch myself on many fronts too.
    God Bless,
    Jim
     
    #26
  7. Lifeisacrapshoot, Jul 9, 2013

    Lifeisacrapshoot

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    Hi Jimmatt, SevenOut, and 777,

    Much sincere thanks to you guys for the added comments. I'm still a little hooked on this forum, but I really cannot play craps much anymore. This is a tough one. Sometimes stuff happens that forces you to go cold turkey. Do NOT think this is at all easy for me, but I've been a survivor all my life. My grandfather enjoyed gambling back in the 40's and 50's and ran what was once known as "The Policy" back in the day on the south side of Chicago. He was an incredible artist and photographer, but numbers were his "side" thing. My grandma enjoyed Vegas and my mother still loves the Illinois Lottery. She watches the afternoon drawings on tv from her chair at the dialysis center. She calls me everyday asking if I saw the numbers. LOL! What a family I come from. I guess gambling of some sort was in my destiny. I knew I was in trouble when I chose the casino over the 11am service. Believe it or not, I used to really love going to church and listening to some intense, funky gospel music. If only I hadn't seen that dang big white bus with the Horseshoe ad on the side talking about the FREE ride to the casino. HA! There is No such thing as a free ride in this world, at least not when it comes to gambling.

    Lifeisacrapshoot (Pam) :kiss:

    P.S. I hope you guys can play nice nice with each other. In the words of the late Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
     
    #27
  8. falcon, Jul 9, 2013

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    That's a great question and the general answer is NO. All bets placed after the point is established are at the mercy of the 7 out simply because the 7 appears more often than any other number - six ways. Therefore, the more bets that are on the table at the same time for the same player require more hits to break even with the totality of the bets placed. So if a player places bets across the board (six bets) of equal value, he must be "lucky" enough to win approximately four to five of those bets in order to just break even.

    Conservative players might bet the 6 & 8 to start and must hit them at least twice for a profit to be registered. Pressing or increasing those wagers provide more risk and then perhaps more reward, but the bottom line is that additional wagers must be accompanied by additional wins. There is nothing magical about those calculations; it is just simple arithmetic.

    I just got back from my Tuesday casino play. When I bought in, there were eight other players. All but two, including me, were PL/FO and Come/Odds players. The other guy was a straight Don't player. After approximately one hour everyone but me was tapped out and left; I was up. They only knew one way to play and bought in to the "stink of the gullible bait." I continued to play for another hour and about three others bought in. Of those three, two left and I colored. It was fun and profitable.

    falcon
     
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  9. kaysirtap, Jul 10, 2013

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    No surprise that you are confused. Yes, FO on the Pass/Come/Put lose an expected 67% of the time. But you've ignored how much they pay. Guess what, FO on the Don't Pass/DC lose only 33% of the time. Does that make them better? We can't just compare two bets by how frequently they win. You also have to consider what they pay when they win.

    Maybe I misunderstood you when you said "PL/FO and Come/Odds", because to me it looked like you ignored PL and Come wins on a 7/11... as you normally do. Of course, PL/Come bets with established points aren't the greatest in the world, but that's the price you pay for having the advantage on the come-out. PL bets themselves win more than 33% of the time. If you choose to ignore that advantage on the come-out, then you are really talking about Put bets... which you normally fail to recognize you're doing.

    And maybe if you did recognize that, you'd realize that the "establishment's" math is not a fantasy. Maybe. I won't hold my breath.
     
    #29
  10. Sancho Panza, Jul 10, 2013

    Sancho Panza

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    You can't be saying that the "idiosyncrasies of the game and its players" are more helpful in winning than the plain and accurate math, right?
     
    #30
  11. basicstrategy777, Jul 10, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    SevenOut.......I'll stand by my post. The reason is because each paragraph is a true statement.

    Regarding personal insults, I have yet to unholster my verbal gun. You ain't seen nothin' yet and there will be no mistake when that occurrs. I try to bite my tongue and back off, but I don't have as much class as you ( apparently ).

    The reason I called falcon a fool is because, IMHO, he IS a fool. I'm not too politically correct, and anyway, what's wrong with calling a spade a spade.

    FOOL:

    n.

    1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.

    2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion..

    3. A person lacking in judgment or prudence

    4. A harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of understanding

    5. A silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.


    6. One destitute of reason, or of the common powers of understanding; an idiot..

    7 A person deficient in intellect; one who acts absurdly, or pursues a course contrary to the dictates of wisdom; one without judgment; a simpleton; a dolt.

    8. A cold dessert of pureed fruit mixed with whipped cream or custard.


    In spite of falcon repeatedly, in many different ways, by many different people, in many different forums, being shown the light of correct craps math, he refuses to believe and continues to spew his 'craps math by falcon'. His church is empty and his followers are few but he continues and continues and continues putting forth his version of craps math. It's fucked up. It gets tiring and it gets aggravating after a while.

    My posts here are accurate and short and not kissey-facey. I call it the way it is.....the good, the bad and the ugly. If you don't like what I say or how I say it, that's tough. Tune me out or hear me out....your call.

    I'm all for ...."let's all get along"....but not at all costs.

    I'd rather you hate me for who I am, than love me for who I am not.

    By the way......you talk waaaay past the sale. Anybody ever tell you that ?

    777
     
    #31
  12. SevenOut, Jul 10, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    ***********

    Your eight definitions actually fit the politicians running the country at the moment. I am glad to be a Conservative and could not get elected, even if I were to become a fool.

    I sorta miss the "waaaay past the sale", but probably means my posts are too long and not relevant. I have no problem with that and I encourage anyone to just ignore my posts. It is just when some individuals empty their head of facts, the glass is still empty.

    After trying to add to a post this morning, I discovered someone has already beaten you to censoring my posts... and I cannot post anything new it seems. This may not even submit. (Apparently this posted and so did my earlier inability to post some intellectual potpourri to a title that was dear to my heart. Wussie's among us.)

    I will have to say that we all can view Craps differently, but I have never been accused of being a demagog and ALWAYS play with honest dice with my arguments. If not, I deserve to be corrected.

    Prove Falcon or myself in error, but name calling makes your argument offensive and unworthy of further comment. If I am in error, I will shake what ever you offer to me to shake...and admit to my lapse in judgment.
     
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  13. The Midnight Skulker, Jul 11, 2013

    The Midnight Skulker

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    http://www.crapsforum.com/viewthread/9735/
     
    #33
  14. basicstrategy777, Jul 11, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    SO..........My argument is on the money and solid.

    You need to get out of your white suit, get in the mud ( the world ), and hold your ground.

    Your white hat...I'm above the fray....poor me approach....doesn't cut it with me.

    You talk like a wimp.

    777
     
    #34

  15. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Ive been claiming my craps winnings on my taxes for years and years. put my kids through college with my winnings, paid off my mortgage, bought some nice automobiles, took some nice trips.
    I also have a bridge Id like to sell if anyone is interested.


    Im not sure if losing or being behind is the same for everyone.

    The person walking up to the table with his rent money, before he buys in, is a loser. Hes lost.
    the person walking up to the table with his familys food money, hes a loser.
    If you don't understand that gambling is supposed to be a fun activity that gets your juices flowing, you have a problem, you will never be a winner, because you will automatically do it again and again.
    Im not preaching, don't need to here.

    Ive tried to track my play over the years, it was difficult.

    winning sessions seem to stand out, losing sessions tend to blend into one another.

    I know when Im doing well. I tend to go back to the casino a lot. when Im losing, I avoid it like the proctologist with long fingernails.
     
    #35
  16. SevenOut, Jul 11, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    **************

    At first I was not certain you were speaking to me... or my mother.

    I can get into the mud and out with a white suit any time, partner. I do not own a white cowboy hat... it is black. What is your excuse?

    The next post is probably going to be YOUR making physical threats and you will pummel anyone who has a higher Craps IQ than yourself, zero less the House Advantage.

    Basic Strategy 777. You sound like you fit your 8 definitions of a Fool and a former burned out Blackjack player. You probably can count the 6 to 8 deck shoe and keep track of what has been played for two weeks. Can't you just be a normal human being, or must it all be threats and insulting behavior. What is 7 + 7 + 7 in your book... all hard ways?

    Maybe you did not like the "empty cup" line. Above the Fray... Poor me? Are you some nut case? You get your cage rattled, and go ballistic. If you cannot control your personality breaking down on an internet web site... how do you manage to step up to a Craps table with your dish washing earnings and expect to WIN at anything? You cannot even win a debate with a typewriter and against people who you imagine are "against you" and have never met.

    My youngest daughter at 12 knew more about Craps strategy than you at your age (open for discussion).

    Read your responses to other threads... you are at least consistent. You from south Chicago, bro? Big Bad John? What is it with this anger? The way you respond, you need to change your handle to Basicstrategy 000. Basic? Yes.
     
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  17. SevenOut, Jul 11, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    ************

    You had me impressed when I began the first paragraph!

    You must be wearing a white suit and a white dude hat. You are one of the Wiser Owls to step forward and present a logical honest presentation on Craps. There is a need on this Forum for more Craps players as yourself. Reality and imagination are discussed too often as one and the same. I like the fingernail line... could not have thought of that one!

    Good luck at the tables and leave with a big grin and enjoy your time during the action!
     
    #37
  18. SevenOut, Jul 11, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Hi Midnight. I already spent a number of paragraphs and posts on this game plan debate expressing my proofs and system, not only on THIS Thread but the one you are referring me to!

    I prefer my Hit and Run Strategy. Hit with higher bets and taking on some stiffer HA. RUN if and when I am making enough money.

    As Basicstrategy000 would put it on my Hit and Run Strategy... Only a mommies girly boy would play like that. Yep. Partner... I love my mommy. She never played Craps in her life... but would watch some people play and ask "why do the losers keep buying more chips". Because Mom... they are slot machine addicts wanting to show there are other ways to lose their money in a shorter period of time.
     
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  19. basicstrategy777, Jul 11, 2013

    basicstrategy777

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    SevenOut.....You need to stay focused on the subject at hand and not try to divert the 'discussion' with koo-koo talk about physical threats, etc. You are starting to lose it. I see a chink in Mr. Nice guys armour.

    Diversion............When you have the facts, pound the facts. When you don't have the facts, pound the table.

    This came about because of falcons ( one more time ) faulty craps math and your subsequent backing of him/it. You asked to be shown the faulty math. MidNite showed you the faulty math. I suggest you stick to the subject at hand Mr. Rogers. Prove that falcon is right and Midnite is wrong. You can't.

    I've been shooting dice since before you were born.......you have a long way to go sonny.


    777

    post script:.....This talk is generating more heat than light, so I will now bow out of this thread. Call it what you will.
     
    #39
  20. falcon, Jul 11, 2013

    falcon

    falcon Member

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    Actually Midnight showed a thread/post that proved my math to be correct. He then changed the entire premise to fit his personal agenda. I have had some who have pointed out an occasional error which I have admitted at a later post after examining the correction.

    Basic000's, I believe, claims to be a published author, perhaps so, but if he proclaims the "establishment party line," he might as well be a shill for the house. His intellectual tank is empty so his last resorts are misdirection, bad manners, and bullying.

    7Out you are a class act.

    falcon
     
    #40