A serious craps player....

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by TDVegas, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. twodicebilly, Aug 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,715
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Gender:
    Male
    liman

    Why are you and friends trying so hard to show my point of view is wrong?

    TDB
     
    #41
  2. The Midnight Skulker, Aug 6, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    4,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    1. I have studied and analyzed the game mathematically. I therefore know every bet I can make, the probability of winning that bet, the bankroll volatility I can expect when making that bet, and its expected value.
    2. Based on #1 I have developed a number of strategies for both the "right" and "wrong" sides. IOW I have a bag of tricks from which to select a trick that appears to have the best chance of meeting my goal for a session, and can change tricks if the one I am currently using is not working.
    3. I believe it is possible to influence dice outcomes, but that to achieve any significant level of influence is extremely difficult (and therefore attainable only by very, very few shooters) and may well be self-eliminating (and therefore useless) if it is achieved.
    4. Based on #3 I have chosen to limit the resources I devote to pursuing DI proficiency to at-the-casino experiments with grips and deliveries. Specifically, I have sought no formal instruction, nor have I purchased or constructed any practice equipment/accessories.
    In your opinion, am I a serious player? If not, why not?
     
    #42
    yacraps likes this.
  3. twodicebilly, Aug 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,715
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Gender:
    Male
    midnight


    Well you can answer that question for yourself....in fact you already have...….

    .Based on #3 I have chosen to limit the resources I devote to pursuing DI proficiency to at-the-casino experiments with grips and deliveries


    If you felt that there was nothing ever that would make a difference, then you would have considered.....nothing.

    Midnight, there is nothing wrong with the guy that does nothing, and there is nothing wrong with the guy that does all he
    can.........but they are NOT the same.

    TDB
     
    #43
  4. eagleeye2, Aug 6, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,412
    Likes Received:
    572
    Gender:
    Male
    +9

    Sorry Skulker, but your being honest in ""nor have I purchased or constructed any practice equipment/accessories."" makes you but a rank amateur & NOT serious about the game of Casino CRAPS...

    Yes, while it is extremely difficult to accomplish, DI cannot be accomplished without one spending significant hours on a Practice table.

    It is best to establish your expertise on a Practice Table, then find a Casino CRAPS Table that is similar; than do it in reverse!!!

    eagleeye2
     
    #44
  5. twodicebilly, Aug 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,715
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Gender:
    Male
    Eagleye2

    This entire discussion is a manifestation of the ego of TDV...… he does nothing
    which is wonderful, great...perfect if that fits him.....but the idea that the guys that
    put in a lot of work on this could be more serious about craps than he is, is more
    than he can stand.....

    I golf one time every two weeks... the buddies I golf with are in a league and the golf
    twice a week in addition to the league...they are vastly more serious about golf than I,
    but when we play, I want to do just as good as I can like they want to do just as good as
    they can...…..

    TDV thinks if he just wants to win....then his approach is the same as others.....

    He is just trying to protect his ego...….

    TDB
     
    #45

  6. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    8,508
    Likes Received:
    7,539
    Im not trying to squash you point of view.

    Im saying you have this fucking nonsense mantra about your posts that clearly states if someone doesn't put the time in practicing, that labels them a non serious player.

    and that is total bullshit. You believe in dice influencing, I don't.

    if you were a serious craps player, with talent, youd never be playing at anything less than 100-500 dollar tables. You and all di shooters question their talent, and defend their 5 and 10 dollar betting saying, oh, no one has to bet big to win big.to that, I say hogwash.
    Ive played for 40 years, and have been on rolls that every DI shooter on earth would be green with envy.
    And at 25 dollar betting level, my best win ever was around (I don't recall exact amount, but in excess of 12000 dollars in ballys AC)
    DI shooters aren't walking up to a table, betting 5 dollar pass line, throw 5 tosses, then press their place bets to 1200 each six and eight if they think they are hitting them

    they stroll along at 5 dollar bets until they hit some numbers, then JUST like me and everyone else at the table, increase their bets and hope for the best.

    Im waiting for the day when a di player says, liman, come watch or play alongside me and Ill show you how I can roll 25 numbers each time I get the dice. Not one time, consistent.

    then Ill post about it and say, hey, I met a dice influencer that can DO IT!
     
    #46
    yacraps likes this.

  7. Liman

    Liman Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    8,508
    Likes Received:
    7,539
    and then ofcourse, lets not forget, the people who make billions of dollars on mega casinos put up their money knowing well in advance DI shooters aren't going to beat them.
    all this nonsense, well, they don't worry about the few that can....yeah...everyone wins now and then. its good advertising for them.
     
    #47
    yacraps likes this.
  8. twodicebilly, Aug 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,715
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Gender:
    Male
    Liman


    see now this is not a serious question...….Im waiting for the day when a di player says, liman, come watch or play alongside me and Ill show you how I can roll 25 numbers each time I get the dice. Not one time, consistent.

    NO one can do that and no one ever said they can do that......

    the point of working on anything is to improve where (YOU ARE) in relation to where you where....no were in that
    statement is Liman, or TDV or DOM..........

    If everything I have done helps me win a little more than I used to....great....that has nothing to do with you....zero,

    So If happen to be doing better I would like to talk about the things that have helped me do that. Linaway
    talks about his material because he feels it is helpful, Rick talks about paying attention to what the table is
    giving you, and if you going to learn a shot,pay attention to what that shot is telling you, GTC has their
    point of view, Parr has theirs, LJ has theirs, Heavy has his...…..no one is doing anything to be better than
    some else....it is to improve your game so you dont lose as often, so can play the game without losing your house.

    I dont think I am serious about golf.....i dont look at as an insult for my buddies to say they are more serious
    about golf than i am....i have a friend that plays a random game of craps and gets his butt kicked, but he plays
    3 times a week and his buy in $3000 each night.....he is much more serious about craps than i am even though
    my win rate is much better.

    TDB
     
    #48
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  9. The Midnight Skulker, Aug 6, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    4,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    It's even worse when you lose your ass too; then you don't know if you're cumming or going.

    (I'm sorry, Billy; that typo was seriously too good to pass up.)
     
    #49
    yacraps and TDVegas like this.
  10. TDVegas, Aug 6, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,886
    Likes Received:
    10,742
    Basically correct. I believe the game is random. My approach to win is the same as everyone else in that first and foremost I want to win. I structure my bankroll, my betting, my strategy to try and achieve that goal.....to win within the idea that craps is a random game and I hope the dice abide.

    You certainly can believe differently. I don't.

    Instead of trying to make it a "we" or "they" thing as you do.....I'm trying to discuss craps.

    Your beliefs are yours. Mine are mine. If you are trying to create separation of "serious player" and "non serious player"....then read this....
     
    #50
  11. eagleeye2, Aug 6, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,412
    Likes Received:
    572
    Gender:
    Male

    Liman,

    Why do you require a DI to be better than you are???

    Oh, yah, you LOOSE most of the time, poor chap...

    A DI does not WIN every time they shoot the dice, no one does...

    But with that combination of DI & Pressing Repeat Bets, he will win more $$$ than he looses, unlike you & your Randi Friends, DUH!!!

    eagleeye2
     
    #51
  12. von duck, Aug 6, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,733
    Likes Received:
    2,558
    Gender:
    Male
    The one they explored, might have been a winner. If so, you could hardly be deemed insane, for sticking with it. It's sort of like, you went fishing, and were catching fish with a certain bait, but then said, "this is too easy" I think I'll put a hook through one TDBs posts, and see if I get any bites. :cool:
     
    #52
  13. eagleeye2, Aug 6, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,412
    Likes Received:
    572
    Gender:
    Male

    TDV,

    If you truly believe as you stagte, i.e. ""I believe the game is random. My approach to win is the same as everyone else in that first and foremost I want to win.""...

    Then it appears that you believe in MIND OVER MATTER???

    eagleeye2
     
    #53
  14. random_roller, Aug 6, 2019

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    4,013
    Likes Received:
    5,352
    To a player who believes live craps played at a casino is a random game of chance, there is no point in practicing tossing the dice. That belief alone (and a refusal to practice dice tossing), however, isn't ANY indication as to how "serious" a craps player he/she is. I'll compare frequency of play, average bet, # of casinos played at, etc., with anyone, lol.

    I think craps is a random game. I'm a random roller. That being said, I don't exclude the possibility there are a few out there who can (however slightly) defy expectations over the long run. If someone has legitimate long-term monetary success at the craps table, great. Keep doing what you're doing and make plans to visit Rivers Casino (Des Plaines, IL).

    When I'm at a craps table, I want every right side shooter to fare well. Sometimes the chuck & duck shooters have better rolls, other times the dice setters seem to have better rolls. A few occassions, any shooter will have a good roll. Unfortunately, though, there are also times when nothing goes right for any shooter. But one thing is certain - the house will end up ahead overall in the long run regardless of who is shooting.
     
    #54
    yacraps, Edward-ky and TDVegas like this.
  15. von duck, Aug 6, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,733
    Likes Received:
    2,558
    Gender:
    Male
    "Pressing" is more of a sure way to lose, than to win, even if they are a DI, which they are not! :cool:
     
    #55
  16. TDVegas, Aug 6, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,886
    Likes Received:
    10,742
    Here here. While I don't play table craps anymore...I don't care if it's a setter, a mechanical tosser or a chucker who gets on a long roll. All get kudos.

    I don't think anyone has the time to "track" enough of other players action while we are playing to make some valid "determination" of who has it today. I'm sure we've seen long rolls followed up with 8/7. I'm also sure we've seen 8/7 followed with a 16 roll.

    Pat Dimauro says "bet when I toss". As of today....she's holding the crown on who to give the dice to....

    LOL...
     
    #56
    yacraps and random_roller like this.
  17. TDVegas, Aug 6, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,886
    Likes Received:
    10,742
    Wait a minute...

    He's a random player but is "much more serious" than you simply because.....

    He plays more often.....?

    And gambles more money than you do....?

    I thought your entire argument on "serious" player was based on those who invest time practicing, working on their shot, taking classes, etc., to better their game...?

    Now....you say this random guy who merely plays more times and bets more than you is MORE serious than you about craps??

    Which is it?
     
    #57
  18. tabletop123, Aug 6, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,564
    Likes Received:
    5,531
    All of this back, & forth Mumbo, Gumbo bullshit. Everyone needs to read Midnight's post. Then when ya finish reading it....READ IT AGAIN!!!!

    Nobody is killing the Casinos JUST BECAUSE they are a serious player that works SERIOUSLY at Dice Tossing.

    Dice Influencing is basically a " Style/method" of tossing the dice, & in MOST cases.....NOT much more!!

    There are no serious advantages in skillfully tossing dice....EXCEPT for the APPEARANCE, & roll-out of the toss. The advantage that a skillful shooter MIGHT possess will be so thin....as to not even consider.

    However, ya just gotta let " those" that SWEAR by Dice Influencing, & " Serious" playing to PLOD along while SCREAMING that they can influence the dice, that they work hard on their game, & that they are beating the Casinos.

    Allow them to CONTINUE to persuade others that they are REALLY winning, & MAYBE, just MAYBE.....THEN......& ONLY THEN.....they MIGHT just shut the fu**k up!!!!

    It simply baffles me as to WHY these blazing hot Dice Influencing winners would come to a OPEN craps forum, & discuss....IN DETAIL, how they are kicking the Casinos in the Ass. It just DOESN'T make sense to do so.

    Wouldn't a private forum serve as a more convenient platform to discuss dice set changes, Vault Assaults, & paying the bills off of Casino winnings?

    I mean.....REALLY? Are these guys just gluttoned for punishment? Would a Bank Robber sit on the steps of a Courthouse, & draw up blue-prints on the next bank heist?

    I'm really beginning to think that maybe some of these guys are slightly retarded.

    Listen.....I understand.....Yes.....no one own this forum BUT Jacob. Members have the right to discuss ANY, & EVERYTHING on this forum, but......FOR THE LIFE OF ME.....WHY can't these Vault Assaulters QUIETLY PLOD along...KILLING the Casinos.....WITHOUT discussing things with a bunch of forum members that say: Congratulations on your wins. We wish you CONTINUED success, but....Really.....we don't give a Shit!!!!

    I dunno gentlemen....but if it was ME that was beating the Casinos. Using different tosses, & dice sets to beat the game. Taking classes. Partaking in " Meet-ups" with other skilled shooters.....I'd tell each, & every one of you to KISS MY ASS, & NOT worry about your opinions of what I CLAIM to do, & continue to make those life- altering Bank Deposits from Casino winnings!!!!

    The primary reason that SO-CALLED Dice Influencers catch so much " Flack" is because they just CANNOT....SHUT THE FUCK UP whilst they are SUPPOSEDLY getting the money!!!

    Then they come on a OPEN FORUM discussing WHAT THEY DO, & then complain about " Push-back", because no one gives a fu**k!!! Lol

    My Ass hurts!!!!
     
    #58
    yacraps likes this.
  19. tabletop123, Aug 6, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,564
    Likes Received:
    5,531
    All of this back, & forth Mumbo, Gumbo bullshit. Everyone needs to read Midnight's post. Then when ya finish reading it....READ IT AGAIN!!!!

    Nobody is killing the Casinos JUST BECAUSE they are a serious player that works SERIOUSLY at Dice Tossing.

    Dice Influencing is basically a " Style/method" of tossing the dice, & in MOST cases.....NOT much more!!

    There are no serious advantages in skillfully tossing dice....EXCEPT for the APPEARANCE, & roll-out of the toss. The advantage that a skillful shooter MIGHT possess will be so thin....as to not even consider.

    However, ya just gotta let " those" that SWEAR by Dice Influencing, & " Serious" playing to PLOD along while SCREAMING that they can influence the dice, that they work hard on their game, & that they are beating the Casinos.

    Allow them to CONTINUE to persuade others that they are REALLY winning, & MAYBE, just MAYBE.....THEN......& ONLY THEN.....they MIGHT just shut the fu**k up!!!!

    It simply baffles me as to WHY these blazing hot Dice Influencing winners would come to a OPEN craps forum, & discuss....IN DETAIL, how they are kicking the Casinos in the Ass. It just DOESN'T make sense to do so.

    Wouldn't a private forum serve as a more convenient platform to discuss dice set changes, Vault Assaults, & paying the bills off of Casino winnings?

    I mean.....REALLY? Are these guys just gluttoned for punishment? Would a Bank Robber sit on the steps of a Courthouse, & draw up blue-prints on the next bank heist?

    I'm really beginning to think that maybe some of these guys are slightly retarded.

    Listen.....I understand.....Yes.....no one own this forum BUT Jacob. Members have the right to discuss ANY, & EVERYTHING on this forum, but......FOR THE LIFE OF ME.....WHY can't these Vault Assaulters QUIETLY PLOD along...KILLING the Casinos.....WITHOUT discussing things with a bunch of forum members that say: Congratulations on your wins. We wish you CONTINUED success, but....Really.....we don't give a Shit!!!!

    I dunno gentlemen....but if it was ME that was beating the Casinos. Using different tosses, & dice sets to beat the game. Taking classes. Partaking in " Meet-ups" with other skilled shooters.....I'd tell each, & every one of you to KISS MY ASS, & NOT worry about your opinions of what I CLAIM to do, & continue to make those life- altering Bank Deposits from Casino winnings!!!!

    The primary reason that SO-CALLED Dice Influencers catch so much " Flack" is because they just CANNOT....SHUT THE FUCK UP whilst they are SUPPOSEDLY getting the money!!!

    Then they come on a OPEN FORUM discussing WHAT THEY DO, & then complain about " Push-back", because no one gives a fu**k!!! Lol

    My Ass hurts!!!!
     
    #59
  20. twodicebilly, Aug 6, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,715
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Gender:
    Male
    tdv


    your full of shit.. when I was fishing all you were doing was cutting down everything
    we said....you were not talking about craps.

    tdb
     
    #60