A serious craps player....

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by TDVegas, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. TDVegas, Jul 15, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    what is a serious craps player?

    In my mind, a serious craps player is anyone who goes to the casino with an intent to win and knows the payouts, the odds, the house edge and the basic game play. We probably all qualify under these ideas.

    How he accomplishes his intent to win is based on his belief of the game. A player who believes the game is random is formulating his plan based on a random game....meaning he's not a DI, doesn't believe that past results influence future outcomes or that he has a way of knowing in advance what numbers may come up (charting, etc.)

    He's a serious player....he wants to win and does his best within his belief that the game is random.

    A dice influencer is under a different belief system but is also a serious player. He also is there to win. He feels he can alter random dice outcomes....so his belief system about the game is different but he maintains that same serious intent to win.

    A third player may believe he can see occurrences on the table that gives him a "window" (i.e. charting) into future results. His belief system is different than random or DI....but he is also serious in his intent to win.

    I don't know how to define a NOT serious craps player....

    Undisciplined?
    Table time is most important?
    Lacking a goal?

    I guess an argument could be made....but based on the 3 players noted above, (random, DI and charting) we are all serious craps players. Some are betting $1 on the 6. Some are betting $1,000 on the 6....and many somewhere in between.

    I guess my point is that no one owns the term "serious craps player"....we all own it.

    With that in mind....KKJ, Liman and random roller are ALL serious players and as far as I know all 3 will admit to "enjoying playing craps".

    With that in mind....G, DaveCt and Demango are ALL serious players and as far as I know all 3 will admit to "enjoying playing craps".

    Any charters, predictors, etc....are ALL serious players.

    Intent to win and enjoying playing craps are NOT mutually exclusive.

    Now, there is another aspect to all this. Those players who have formulated their bankroll to betting to win goal using sound mathematical principals to establish the chances for success. These players are generally math whiz's who may have a leg up on the rest of us.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  2. The Comeback Kid, Jul 16, 2019

    The Comeback Kid

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    The very thing that creates it (the win);
    is the very thing that blocks it (the loss)
    & all that separates the two is focus.
    Where you’re looking is where you’re going.
    Be serious, but not too serious.

    ...but what do I know?
     
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  3. KokomoJoe4, Jul 16, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Since table games started in the local casino, I used to be anal about "beating the game", doing everything in my power, including quitting after an initial winner, to have winning sessions.

    There were plenty of losers, but for a pretty long time, I had a session win percentage slightly better than 0.500. This has since gone south.

    Over the past 2 or 3 years, I'm playing very little, and seldom even get the urge to go in.

    I guess I used to be serious about playing, but don't consider myself serious anymore. That's not to say that I stopped looking for a five figure winner every time I play, just don't take things quite as seriously as I used to.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  4. TDVegas, Jul 16, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    I still think you are a serious player....it's just that you aren't playing as often. You still play to win. Who doesn't? There are many that consider themselves serious craps players that only play once every 2-3 months. I have no issue with that. They are serious players. The same intent to win is there if you play 10 times a year or 100 times a year.

    If serious just means times played....whoa, I'm up there on the serious chart. :)
     
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  5. eagleeye2, Jul 16, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Get REAL TDV,

    ""sound mathematical principals"" for CRAPS, can only verify that in a RANDOM CRAPS Game, the CASINO will WIN over time!!!

    You only have VARIANCE OR as some call it ""LUCK"" to enable one to WIN!

    The DI, however has his SKILL added to that equation!!!

    eagleeye2
     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  6. TDVegas, Jul 16, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    The belief system for a DI is not applicable for a random roller. A random roller does not share those same beliefs that dice can be influenced. So, he does not distinguish his "seriousness for winning" from anyone else. He feels it is the same.

    By seriousness of winning.....we are talking a session. He is 100% serious in his attempt to win. Not long term expectations.

    A DI is also serious in his attempt to win....but his reasons are not applicable to a random roller. He is under a different, "self" belief system. Which is perfectly fine.
     
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  7. von duck, Jul 16, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    A Sirius craps player? :confused: I guess it would be one that throws like a "Dog". :cool: I think I qualify. :)
     
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  8. eagleeye2, Jul 16, 2019

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    TDV,

    I do not disagree with what you post above, only pointing out that what you posted previously & repeated below is NOT TRUE, i.e.
    ""Now, there is another aspect to all this. Those players who have formulated their bankroll to betting to win goal using sound mathematical principals to establish the chances for success. These players are generally math whiz's who may have a leg up on the rest of us.

    My Post ~ ""sound mathematical principals"" for CRAPS, can only verify that in a RANDOM CRAPS Game, the CASINO will WIN over time!!!

    You only have VARIANCE OR as some call it ""LUCK"" to enable one to WIN!

    The DI, however has his SKILL added to that equation!!!

    eagleeye2
     
    #8
  9. Mssthis1, Jul 16, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    How large of a roll sample do you feel you need to differentiate skill from variance?

    My bubble roll sample for this year which now stands at a shade over 12,000 has a SRR of 6.3. In your opinion is that my skill in picking entry and exit points and pushing the button where applicable or is it just variance?

    Approx 70% of the rolls are from 1 machine with the majority of the rest being from various Vegas machines. On my home machine they've changed out the dice 3 times this year. I keep track of that too. It's easy to tell from visual observation. last time was the week before Memorial Day and I've noticed a difference in the results since then. The SRR was over 6.5 before the last changeout.
     
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  10. TDVegas, Jul 16, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    They are calculating their chances for success for any given session.

    While there is no guarantee ANY session will be a win for anyone, someone can calculate their chances for success utilizing certain strategies in that session.

    There are many types of plays that offer a greater chance of winning than losing...albeit there is a long term hitch.

    You keep saying "over time" and long term. My synopsis was based on a session for all players. We are all serious about winning that session.
     
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  11. mynameisgambling, Jul 28, 2019

    mynameisgambling

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    I agree!
     
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  12. von duck, Jul 28, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Thanks! So you've seen me shoot huh? :)
     
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  13. The Midnight Skulker, Jul 28, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Can't say that I have, but if you don't mind me asking, How's your foot?
     
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  14. Dave G Ct, Jul 28, 2019

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Great post TD!
    I would like to be included in 2 categories.DI & window - money mgr. Betting is. Regression
     
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  15. twodicebilly, Jul 28, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Dave

    serious player begs a question...…..or two

    If you have two bowlers....one bowls one time a week and uses an alley ball, the other
    bowls 3 times a week, and has 5 balls of his own depending what type of oil is on the
    lanes.

    They both want as high a score as they can get......you think there are the same in terms
    preparation and how serious they are with the game????

    One guy fishes off the bridge maybe two times a month, the other spent $70,000 of his
    money for a boat , makes his own lures and fishes 2-3 times a week.....you think they
    are the same in the way they prepare for fishing and how important fishing is to them????

    One guy golfs 2 times a month,,,rents his clubs, the other has $2000 clubs, a golf cart, has
    a membership to the course, has taken lessons and plays 3-4 times a week, they both
    want a good score......you think gold holds the same degree of importance to them?????


    Same here.....one guy plays when he can, has no practice table, has not taken any
    classes, other than his play, has never put in an hour of preparation into the game, and
    a guy that has spent his money for classes, got a practice rig or table, has put in hundreds
    of hours on his shot or learning the difference between tables.. they both want to win,but
    they are not both the same in terms of what craps means to them.

    If I were TDV of course I would say I am a serious player...how would that look if I said
    I dont do a damn thing, but I take the game as serious as you do ?????

    tdb
     
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  16. TDVegas, Jul 28, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    You're conflating sports where it's been documented that certain things can be done to make a better player. Craps offers no such documentation....But put that aside for the moment....

    A craps player who believes craps is a random game does NOT have your belief system that they can improve their skill at the game....as they believe there is no skill whatsoever in the game. I'm talking physical skill as in manipulating or influencing dice results. They do not believe it is possible.

    You, of course, are free to believe otherwise as they believe of your claim.

    Regardless, BOTH players feel they are doing their best...to win. Both are serious players WITHIN THEIR BELIEF of the game. One random. The other influence.

    Your beliefs on the game are not theirs....and vice versa.

    That takes NOTHING away from either player being serious about winning.
     
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  17. twodicebilly, Jul 28, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    tdv


    Lots of people think like you do....



    TDB
     
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  18. Liman

    Liman Member

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    billy its a good thing you don't aspire to be a superhero.
    only eating good food, strength training, self defense courses daily.
    and ofcourse, when it comes to your first attempt to fly, trust me on this one, don't jump off a 30 story building figuring you've practiced enough
     
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  19. mynameisgambling, Jul 29, 2019

    mynameisgambling

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    You stole the words from my mouth lol
     
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  20. Mssthis1, Jul 29, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    You always have to use the casino balls in casino craps. Last time I brought my own I got kicked out.
     
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