a couple questions on dice tossing

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by rongarm10, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. rongarm10, Jun 29, 2017

    rongarm10

    rongarm10 Member

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    I have heard the term "double pitch", but not very often the term "single pitch". In fact I have not heard anybody saying that they (at least not very often) singled pitch for a 7 out. I realize that it can and more than likely does in fact happen for a single pitch, but people really don't talk much about "single pitch". I guess in the manner of the way the dice are set would indicate a double pitch, or a single pitch.

    Also is there an advantage of the amount of "revs" or the less amount of revs that people put on dice? In other words if one put 5-6 revs on the dice or just one or two revs, or no revs for that matter, is there any advantage which way one tosses the dice? I would imagine that the type of table surface, hard and bouncy, or non-bouncy type of surface would probably determine the way that one would apply their amount of revs on the dice. So if the table is bouncy would lots of revs be better than very little amount of revs, or the other way around? Just sayin.
     
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  2. DeMango, Jun 29, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Thank you sir for an intelligent post, too intelligent in fact for here. For serious study of this please register at axispowercraps. Seriously! For a very brief answer, double pitches kill those who use the hard way set, whereas single pitch is ok. One dice off axis is great for the hardways but bad for biaxial sets. There are two other measurements BDOA and PFH. Both dice off axis and primary face hit. In 36 rolls of the dice you have outcomes of 4, 4, 8, 16 and 4. Homework: get a pair of dice and figure it out!

    Rotation is necessary but too much can hurt. This assumes you will attempt an on axis shot. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Next homework assignment: read books on di. Scoblete, Sharpshooter, Yuri, Wong and Gambino. You can probably pick them all up used for less than fiddy!
     
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  3. $nakeEye$, Jun 30, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    DeMango -

    REALLY - I am MOST certain that YOU could at least supply a halfway intelligent response to this VALID question ! -

    BUT - ALAS - looking at the make-up of this board -

    I give you credit for directing this lost soul who is seeking guidance AWAY from THIS board -

    Due to the likes of TD Vegas and his posse of intellectual lacks -

    That's Philly speak for " people who LACK INTELLECT " !

    $...eE..$
     
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  4. $nakeEye$, Jun 30, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Let us take the " Traditional Hard Way Set " as a primary example -

    Assume that the dice are set as GTC instructs -55 on the top 44 facing with 66 to the left -

    Taking a pair of dice in hand - rotate same ONE revolution either FORWARD, BACKWARD and you will NOT see a " 7 " -

    Either on the UP numbers NOR on the FACING numbers -

    One step further - pitch ONE die to the left AND / OR right and perform the same procedure -

    Again - you will NOT see the appearance of a " 7 " - SAME as ABOVE

    THIS is a SINGLE PITCH scenario !


    Now - perform the SAME maneuvers as above - BUT - do TWO rotations in lieu of ONE -

    THIS time you WILL see the appearance of the " 7 " in EACH and EVERY instance -

    On the UP Faces AND on the FACING NUMBERS -

    THIS is a DOUBLE PITCH !


    DEPENDING on your dice set - the " 7 " will appear on a SINGLE or DOUBLE pitch !


    I concur with De Mango - THIS is NOT the place to ask REAL questions about dice setting / dice influence / dice control -

    Go to Heavy's site and tell Steve that De Mango and $nakeEye$ referred you there !

    $...eE..$
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  5. $nakeEye$, Jun 30, 2017

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    Lesson #2 -

    Look at ANY preferred dice set for the 5 and NINE -

    Whether you have 54 on top with 45 facing - OR - 63 on top with 45 facing -

    A SINGLE PITCH in EACH instance WILL produce at least ONE 7 out !


    SAME with the 64 Brothers set professed by BS777 -

    This set has the 64 top and the 46 facing -

    AGAIN - a SINGLE PITCH 7 out event !


    NOT as predominant as a Double Pitch with the Hard Way set -

    BUT - a Single Pitch event regardless!

    $...eE..$
     
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  6. Freddyy, Jun 30, 2017

    Freddyy

    Freddyy Member

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    What ever you are going to do, the seven is going to show, unless you are lucky enough to have it strike on comeouts.

    Any set has a diffrent purpose. You shouldn't use a set not to seven out. You should chose a set to target number streak you are betting and make money quick to get positive betting plays without having to spread across.

    I use 6-4:4-6 to target 4-6-9-10. Which I bet on. Sometimes not on every number.

    i use 6-3:6-3 to target 6-8-9.

    i use 5-4:4-5 to target 5&9.

    I know I will seven out. But if I can streak 4 times on a number I target. I am making money.

    That's how you play this game.
     
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  7. twodicebilly, Jun 30, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Snakeyes

    "I concur with De Mango - THIS is NOT the place to ask REAL questions about dice setting / dice influence / dice control -"



    YOU got that right.......

    But I would never go to heavy's site.....you had the best guys
    right here....well you used to have the best guys right
    here discussing things like that.....and you know what
    happened... I asked the so called experts on here a very few
    simple questions that would help some players and they did
    not have a clue....not even close.. they admitted that was of
    no interest to them.

    Getting rid of the double pitch with a GTC shot when you are using the hardway set is easy.....but will that be answered on here..nope
    guess you have to go to a craps site .....

    Remember when I asked one of the local experts what set adjustment to make if you were hittng nines with a 35/ 36 set
    and you needed to make a five to hit the ATS bet or a fire bet...

    did you get an answer from that expert.....nope..now that was
    a no brainer...

    we don't need a different site.... we need different people on
    this site...

    twodicebilly
     
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  8. gargoil, Jun 30, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    Who shit in your Cornflakes this morning? Finally got some posts about dice and DI and THIS is how you respond? With posts like this instead of taking the high road, you are still part of the problem instead of the solution.

    Now as to the question on hand, I believe it was covered. The only thing I would add is that you need to SEE what the dice is doing and make any necessary adjustments. This I believe the best skill a DI has under their belt and apply set changes, trajectory adjustments, etc.
     
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  9. Bases loaded, Jun 30, 2017

    Bases loaded

    Bases loaded Member

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    Good to see the DI's discussing 'hard core' technical stuff here.

    I don't understand it; but I like reading about it and I think it is good for the forum.

    I usually wish folks "Good luck", but when this shit works that's not necessary, right?
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  10. tabletop123, Jun 30, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Okay, I'll bite! It is my contention that Dice Sets are overrated! It's the "Toss" that makes the difference.
    If you develop a consistent toss it doesn't matter which Dice Set that you use.

    You can toss profitable hands without setting the dice, IF you have a consistent toss. Setting a particular Dice Set, & trying to REMAIN within a certain axial is a fool's folly, & it limits the other five axials that are available.

    First of all, On Axis ain't happening a LARGE majority of the time. ( You guys have been hood-winked).The numbers on Top that you Set for ( along with the opposite number ( on bottom) ain't happening, either......most of the time.

    No, I am NOT advocating Off Axis tossing, because it happens NATURALLY! How ya gonna influence something that's already there? Two Dice, you should already know this, along with Kokomo!

    The dice are already pre-set for ya when the stick pushes them to ya. All ya need to know is what axial array you are starting with, & which axial array that ya finish in!

    You DONT have to set the dice at all IF you know these things. Setting the dice, & expecting a Specific outcome severely limits your capabilities, because it ain't gonna happen anyway!

    Delivering the dice in a CONSISTENT manner to the same spot on the table is all ya need to do. Using specific sets to "Snipe" numbers.......Don't make me laugh!

    Don't believe it? Deliver the dice on a CONSISTENT manner without setting them, & you'll find that your results are just as good as if you delivered a consistent toss WITHOUT setting them!

    But, but, but, Top, ya need to set the dice a SPECIFIC way in order to hit your number/s that you have your wagers on! No you dont! That is in Theory ONLY!

    Consistency in delivering the dice is what it's all about.
     
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  11. twodicebilly, Jun 30, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    I did not eat breakfast yet....

    But I merely reposted the comment that was posted indicating
    this is not the site to ask questions.....

    I have been suggesting we make this that type of site.... but
    when I was suggesting that for the past several months....where were you gargoil?????

    You think a lot of us DI don't have questions to ask about a problem
    we may be having... but we cant ask it here because we don't want
    others that may have the answer to have to put up with the crap from a few on here...

    That was my point.... and yes cornflakes some good thank you, I may have some.

    twodicebilly
     
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  12. tabletop123, Jun 30, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Correction: Deliver the dice in a CONSISTENT manner without setting them, & you'll find that your results are just as good as if you delivered them in a consistent manner SETTING them!
     
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  13. tabletop123, Jun 30, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Well, if you're referring to TDVegas, he has already stated that Dice Influencing is a Moot point,( in HIS opinion)as long as his name is not mentioned, he'll have no response.......So fire away with the Discussions!
     
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  14. twodicebilly, Jun 30, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Top

    I agree that if you have a decent consistent shot you can have
    good results.... I don't think there is any question about that.

    But I also know for sure that if you have a decent repeatable
    shot a set adjust will have an affect. I have posted any number
    of shots on here when I changed sets....also if you go look
    at the GTC shot, the number 1 problem they have with their
    new guys is the double pitch seven....and I have talked to no
    less than 50 of the guys over the years and watched my
    playing partners here for 8 years....same thing.....yet
    there is a simple quarter turn adjustment that makes huge
    difference in that.

    Now for sure everyone has to do what works for them, but the
    three of us here have over 22 years experience playing with the
    GTC or PARR shot and to us set makes a big difference as
    does altering the rotation of the dice when it comes to avoiding
    the double pitch seven.

    twodiceilly
     
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  15. tabletop123, Jun 30, 2017

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Well, ask your buddy Superrick about tossing consistently WITHOUT setting the dice. Rick was the person that opened my eyes to the possibilities of receiving favorable rolls without setting the dice, AS LONG as the Toss is consistent.....along with Linaway's advice.

    Now, these things you can confirm for yourself. You have the equipment to experiment with. Ya see, everyone with a consistent toss has a shooting quirk. It might be the left die flipping over more than the right. It might be both dice flipping over most of the time. It doesn't matter what the Quirk is.
    Ya just have to identify what it is, & proceed accordingly.

    The problem in the Casinos is that ya have money wagered, & it takes a few hands to identify what the Quirk is ( how your dice are reacting). The other problem in the Casinos is that ya switch over to a different table, & ya might have to start from scratch because now the Shooting quirk has changed. Instead of the left die flipping over consistently.....
    Now it's the right die. ( as an example)

    Billy, you should already know these things from your home practice on YOUR table. What about the days wherein your shooting Quirk changes on YOUR OWN table at home?

    Every day is different, & you toss differently, Even though you THINK/FEEL that your toss is the same . This is what makes Dice Influencing such a hard task......one little twitch in your release, body mechanics, & now the dice are reacting differently. As Rick has said MANY times.....we are not machines, & that is what makes Dice Influencing so difficult.

    You are trying to operate with the very slimest of marginal error.......no easy task!

    The "One influenced toss out of 43 is what "holds" my interest in the craft! Anything more than THAT, & I would have "shelved" the influence thingy a Loooonnngggg time ago.

    Hope springs eternal.
    See you at The Top!
     
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  16. lone irish digit, Jun 30, 2017

    lone irish digit

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    I'm somewhere in the middle between Tabletop and TDBilly on the importance of a specific dice set. Most tables I start out with a Group 2 set which I don't really care what the front and rear faces are but just a consistent top and bottom. However, if I am not hitting numbers I will switch to a Group 1 set but still not caring what the front and rear order is just the what top faces are. But since it only takes a second to set this way or even the exact same ordered set why not set since as someone said "setting can't hurt."
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  17. gargoil, Jun 30, 2017

    gargoil

    gargoil Member

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    I was out at the casinos making money instead of being on the forum here talking about making money. I told you before, if you don't want to talk DI on this forum because of the attacks then use PM. This is an OPEN FORUM. If you don't like how things are.... LEAVE. No one is forcing you to stay here. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU....

    Either ignore the negativity and move on with the positive conversations or go. Take you diapers off and put on your grown up panties. Don't give me this "Why should I leave.. Let them leave" crap. As I said before many times. You can't control other people but you can control the way YOU interact with them. If you can't concentrate on the positive dialogue and ignore the negative attacks, then you don't belong on an open forum. I am speaking from experience and what I learned.
     
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  18. twodicebilly, Jun 30, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Hey I agree with most everything you say... surely nothing works
    all time and your table is a far cry from a casino table....

    And I have said all the time we change everyday, that's why there is no set advantage anyone can get from tossing the dice.....

    YET......

    I have two friend that use just the GTC shot..... when they play
    on a certain short table....they win way more than 50% of the
    time...when they play on tables that don't fir them.....they lose
    most of the time.....The two of them go to vegas often, I don't go
    becauase
     
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  19. von duck, Jun 30, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    My book on how to break even, should be on the shelf, pretty soon.
     
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  20. twodicebilly, Jun 30, 2017

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Gargoil

    Thanks for you feed back.....

    I am glad to see this is an open forum site, I must
    have missed that...

    tdb
     
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