6 & 8

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by Jk46, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Onautopilot, Feb 17, 2018

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    Yep, make a penny or two on the dollar....but the sheer volume has the casino toting a heavy bag to the bank every day!

    I love how some of these guys interpret the math of the game. :)
     
    #21
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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  2. KokomoJoe4, Feb 17, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

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    What does the book say that this says about the effectiveness of place bets, considering that more money is made by the house on these "best" place bets?

    Does the book discuss the often asked question: "What is better for the bettor, Place bet or Come bet?"
     
    #22
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  3. Onautopilot, Feb 17, 2018

    Onautopilot

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    You and I, and probably a lot of others on here, know there is just one answer to the question when just considering the EV of the two bets.
     
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  4. lone irish digit, Feb 17, 2018

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney,

    The book provides greatest clarity to come vs place bets. If one is non skilled player the comes bet is bestest; .however if player is skilled in tossing the dices and shoots with Barney's greatest skunkhat or most beautiful DI goat coat the places bet overcomes slight houses edge of come bet and makes place bet most supperior.

    Thank you very much
     
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  5. Onautopilot, Feb 17, 2018

    Onautopilot

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    If you introduce a bias into the equation, the only thing it changes, if in fact the bias exists, is the EV of the two bets, and certainly that could be any bet becoming the "better" bet.

    Problem is, that is a very difficult proposal to verify. We could put "if's" in equations all day long.....doesn't get you to the answer in most cases....just "what if". :)
     
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  6. von duck, Feb 17, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    :confused::confused: ? ? ? A little more info might be helpful. :) What math?
     
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  7. von duck, Feb 17, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    You'll reach that $300 bet on one one of them about one time in, I don't know , about a zillion. :D It's actually about once in 5800 rolls, but there are two of them, so, half that should be right. :)
     
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  8. James Hall, Feb 17, 2018

    James Hall

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    Barney
    Tell LID he is absolutely correct more is lost on the 6 & 8 because more is bet there
    More is bet and lost there because so many players play and bet by the math and the impression
    that most players get is , that is where there bets should be because of the , "LOW HA"
    Those players betting that way / by the math are playing right into the hands of the casino i.e. , PLAYING THE WRONG GAME"

    Very skilled players look at the low HA bets as house advantage bets
    more is lost on the 6 & 8 than any other numbers
     
    #28
  9. KokomoJoe4, Feb 17, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

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    but James, when I quoted this exact same statement by the Dr. in another recent thread, you were in complete disagreement, so I am now confused, LID's insight on the matter notwithstanding.
     
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  10. James Hall, Feb 17, 2018

    James Hall

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    Help me out , where is the disagreement?
    Tell where the post is so I can read it
     
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  11. Edward-ky, Feb 17, 2018

    Edward-ky

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    But how much of that which is lost is player or money or casino money due to pressing using casino money. So lets say for instance betting the 6 and 8 is advantageous to the casino so everyone stops betting them and just place bets the outside. Then you will have more money is lost on outside numbers. Then are you going to say people are playing the wrong way again for betting the outside numbers. You keep referring to the wrong way to play craps. Everyone has there way of playing the game of craps and there really isnt a wrong way. There is no right way to play that you will end a winner everytime. Everyone has different bankrolls and goals when they play craps which makes the game the best in the casino since you can see many different ways to play the game. Also there is the chance that if you believe in DI that you may have the ability to somewhat control the outcome.
     
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  12. Edward-ky, Feb 17, 2018

    Edward-ky

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    With that statement almost sounds like a attack on james hall. Are you saying the only way james could win is if he knew the numbers to bet beforehand. I guess you will be joining that group of insiders he refers to all the time.
     
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  13. Edward-ky, Feb 17, 2018

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    Just like you have said to before if you want to read it go look it up yourself.
     
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  14. Edward-ky, Feb 17, 2018

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    I have a question. More money is lost on 6 and 8. Does that mean no players made money on those bets. For example 6 for 12. Say both numbers rolled 5 times each during that roll. And it was press take press take. So 1st hit go to 24 rack 2. 2nd hit rack 28 total 30. 3rd hit 60 rack 5 total 35. 4th hit rack 70 total 105. 5th hit press to 120 rack 10 total in rack 115. Then 7 out for a gain of 103. But lost 120 on the 6 at the end. True at the end lost 120 bet but it wasnt necessarily wrong to bet the 6. Does he state in the book all the conditions to which this conclusion is made?
     
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  15. James Hall, Feb 17, 2018

    James Hall

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    Here again Edward Ky I would guess by reading posts on this forum , the majority of the people play the 6 & 8 because
    the math suggests those are going to be the numbers that hit the most. and because a large majority of people have little or no skill in influencing outcomes
    that is going to be pretty much what happens in the majority of rolls so when the dice are producing the 5 sixes and the 6 sevens every 36 rolls
    the odds eat them up , "barring that variance" that TDVegas counts so strongly on , it is very difficult for those players to come out ahead

    When , "GUY" one of the Mesa guys throws the dice in Laughlin at the table that his set and throw works best on
    he throws more 5s and 9s than 6s & 8s

    I have left some pretty sizable amounts on those numbers when he 7nd out but in one case racked about $1200
    and left that much or more on the table

    I had maybe $12 on each of the 6 & 8 , Playing what the dice were giving us

    In that case and generally when he throws we will leave more on the 5 and 9
    I throw more 6s & 8s so guess where we leave more when I throw
     
    #35
  16. lone irish digit, Feb 17, 2018

    lone irish digit

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    James Hall Pre-Post Reply:


    Because the LID loves his "Whataburgers:

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Onautopilot, Feb 17, 2018

    Onautopilot

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    There are two different scenarios when looking at money won or lost on the 6-8 place bets, or any bet for that matter.

    First there is the craps playing "whole", all players combined. From that prospective, the casino expects, and does in fact, end up very close to their expected profit advantage.

    But when you take the individual player by themselves, then variance plays a very significant roll, and just slightly less than half of those individual players expect to come out winning for their session, a few even for the long term.

    But you know that, and so do many on here, and it's just a matter of how one wants to present their opinions and arguments on a subject that gets the attention.

    There is no "mystery" about how much money is lost on the place 6-8, just a matter of mathematics is all....it's a negative EV bet. :)
     
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  18. von duck, Feb 17, 2018

    von duck

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    James was asking the question, I was "pre-post answering" for the other guy. Edward, when you are preceding a word that starts with a vowel or a vowel sound i.e. Honest, use AN, instead of A, you'll sound more literate. :cool: Strive to improve, in everything. :)
     
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  19. TDVegas, Feb 17, 2018

    TDVegas

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    Having played enough to see...and seeing the 15 roll "log" that is right in front of my eyes...

    If I see a preponderance of "runs" of numbers....it's the 6-8 combination that sticks out in my mind. More so than the 5-9...and even more so than the 4-10. Imagine that:confused:

    The numbers work...frankly. Some can't accept that.

    The "you're only going to be there a short time so it doesn't matter"....crew?

    Play for a 1/2 hour and you might see very few of those 4-10's. Then give me the "short term play" argument.
     
    #39
  20. James Hall, Feb 17, 2018

    James Hall

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    Edward
    Some people play the same way all the time , win or lose , the savvy player knows how to adapt , adjust and alter bets to compensate for different numbers being thrown
    I would love to know how many times over the years I have heard people say , I'm on the 9 they throw noting but 8s .
    I move to the 8 they start throwing 9s
    I know that , "TEDIOUS" claims that when I say people should learn to win it's insulting or offensive
    Some people have played for years and are seldom ever able to end a session ahead
    I find it curious that they keep doing the same things , over and over and over again hoping things will change and any hint
    that what they are doing isn't going to change the outcome , they get all bent

    If at the end of the session
    the end of the day
    at the end of the month
    at the end of the year you are winning and losing and you are , "NET NEGATIVE" , you are not winning
    YOU ARE LOSING you are playing the wrong game

    and you need to change the way you play
    I cannot for the life of me understand people who say playing is fun when they are losing

    You don't have , "TO WIN EVERY TIME" but you can't lose most of the time and wind up a winner at the end of the year
     
    #40