2 or 3 comebets??

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by Bonedance, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. Bonedance, Apr 11, 2012

    Bonedance

    Bonedance Member

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    Hey everyone!! I just recently found this forum and this is my first post. I've been reading through the forum and found that there is not much talk about come bets. I am primarily a come bet player and would like to know what the consenses is on the number of come bets one should bet. I know mathematicaly that does'nt matter, but I was wondering which is better, playing with pass line w odds and 2 come bets w odds or 3 come bets w odds. Recently I have been practicing with 2 comebets w odds then add 1 come bet in the hopes that the next nuber rolled is one of my points so that that bet goes off and on. If not I would not put odds on that 3rd come bet until another number hits. Is this a good idea??? So far the practice results are hit or miss. Ive havent tried this in a casino yet. Just wondering what you guys think???
     
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  2. zmoney, Apr 11, 2012

    zmoney

    zmoney Member

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    Why not just do a progressive buy bet strategy? In my opinion and experience this works best for me because you risk less money for about the same cash winnings. I think it just takes longer using the come bet strategy to make money as opposed to buy bets.

    Furthermore if you set for the inside #'s and a 4/10 hits you kind of wasted that come bet because you're not setting for those numbers and may not hit them again. I guess that would be ok if you didn't back those two with odds but then that would defeat the purpose of the come bet.

    Lastly you can make a massive score using a come bet system like the one posted on this site but it takes a big bank roll plus it takes longer to start winning some real money.
     
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  3. basicstrategy777, Apr 11, 2012

    basicstrategy777

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    Initial bets per shooter should be more a function of buy-in than anything else; hopefully your buy-in can support your betting strategy.

    777
     
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  4. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 11, 2012

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I have two tricks in my front-side bag, one I use when I am shooting and one I use on other shooters.

    When I am shooting of course I have to have a PL bet, so I do make one. After establishing a point I make one Come bet for the same amount without taking PL odds. (This "protects" against going continental: two rolls, no coffee.) If the Come bet establishes a different point I now take 1.5x odds on both numbers; if the PL point makes on the turn I do not take odds until I have two numbers working. I then wait for one of my points to hit. If it is the Come point I up my PL odds to 2x and wait for it to make; if it is the PL point I will same bet and take 1.5x odds again. After hitting two points I stop making Come bets and instead place the outside if my PL point is 4 or 10, of place the inside otherwise, progressing my PL and place bets and taking 2x PL odds, the max my local haunt allows.

    I use the 5-count on other shooters, making PL/Come bets starting on the 3 count, taking no odds until I have three numbers working (which means the shooter has qualified). I then take single odds. After one of the points hits I do not make a new Come bet, instead using the profits to double my odds on the remaining points. After a second point is made I use the same strategy as above: one PL/Come bet with 2x odds and place bets.
     
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  5. JHPA

    JHPA Member

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    I tend ot play more come bets on a lower limit table. For example, if I am at a $15 table, I will tend to play a passline with single odds and two place bets. But a $10 I will play double odds with two place bets and a come bet. If it is a $5 table, I will paly the pass line with 3 times odds, two place bets and then have two come bets with three time odds.
     
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  6. BlackChip, Apr 21, 2012

    BlackChip

    BlackChip Member

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    If you like the action of the COME bet, and if your casino allows it, try a put PUT bet after the point is started.

    Its the flat plus whether ODDs you like. Two Put Bets and your pass line bet. You won't have to wait for your number to hit twice to win.

    If you want 3 bets I would go with 2-Place Bets $12 or $24 on 6 and 8 and the PASS bet with odds.
     
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  7. kaysirtap, Apr 21, 2012

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    Welcome to the forum... but sorry, but this is terrible advice. A Put bet is considerably worse than a Come bet. And depending on the odds multiple taken, they can be worse than Place bets too. Saying that the number has to hit twice is not a valid argument.
     
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  8. Southern-Comfort, Apr 21, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    Welcome Blackchip.
    Now, kst.. how exactly is eliminating a random roll that severes little purpose other than adding one more roll to the casino's advantage... how exactly is that a bad thing? Seems like pretty good advice to me.
     
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  9. BlackChip, Apr 21, 2012

    BlackChip

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    Thanks SC


    Kay - I was answering the poll question only. 2 or 3 comes bets. Not giving advice on how to bring the house down. Easy big guy.
     
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  10. kaysirtap, Apr 21, 2012

    kaysirtap

    kaysirtap Member

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    The payout is the same for a Put bet as compared to an established Come bet on the same number. As you said, you are eliminating one roll. On that one roll, the player has an advantage over the casino. Therefore, you will win more money by making Come bets rather than Put bets. This is why advising to bypass the Come and make Put bets instead is bad advice, and that is exactly how eliminating that roll is a bad thing.

    You cannot argue that the number has to roll twice, because you don't know it's going to roll in the first place. The "roll twice" argument is like saying that a bet that won is better than a bet that may or may not win. The argument also ignores the very good possibility that the Come bet won while it was in the Come.

    Advising people to try Put bets instead of Come bets does not answer the question of whether to make two or three Come bets.
     
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  11. Southern-Comfort, Apr 21, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    First, I can argue that the same number has to roll twice because thats the whole point. In a game where the average roll is about 7 (including the comeout and the 7-out) relying on a number to roll twice is.. well... gambling! I'm a gambler, but if I can go for collecting on one roll instead of gambling on two... makes sense to me. I believe you are a confirmed non-believer in DI... so it should make more sense to you than to me even.
    As far as the therory of the seven-advantage on an assumed comeout roll... it has no better chance of coming out than on any other roll... a one roll payoff over a two roll just seems more logical.
     
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  12. basicstrategy777, Apr 22, 2012

    basicstrategy777

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    SC....are you saying you make more money with a Put bet than a come bet, therefore the Put bet is a better bet ?


    777
     
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  13. zmoney, Apr 22, 2012

    zmoney

    zmoney Member

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    I don't want to speak for SC but he was merely defending Blackchip in saying a put bet is more logical than a come bet.

    One question though....... most casinos I've been in only allow one put bet at a time. I might have mis-understood because I don't really pay attention to put bets.
     
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  14. Southern-Comfort, Apr 22, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    I have never made a Put bet. I have never left a casino winning after playing around with come bets. As zmoney points out in his reply, I was merely pointing out that KST was kinda off center in his stating that a put bet is a really really really bad bet because he likes come bets better.
    I think I may have to try Put betting.
     
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  15. kaysirtap, Apr 22, 2012

    kaysirtap

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    SC, I must admit that I'm quite surprised that you are not understanding this. You cannot assume that there was no decision on the first roll of a Come bet. If you knew for sure that a natural would not be thrown when your money was in the Come, then of course the Come is worse than a Put bet (certainly a Put on the 6 & 8, at least). And again, you cannot assume that.

    This "roll twice" argument is the position sworn Place bettors take. The same reasoning used to show that Come bets are better than Place bets is even easier to prove when comparing Come bets to Put bets. If you make a Put bet on the 6, and I make a Come bet... and an 8 is thrown, tell me... which bet now has a better chance of winning? The Put bet, because the 6 needs to be thrown once and the 8 has to be thrown once again? No... of course not. They both have the same chances of winning, and it does not matter which number was just thrown.

    Maybe you say, "but what if a 6 was thrown?" Okay, but how did you know it was going to be a six? If you knew it was going to be a six, then you should have just hopped them. Furthermore, I could simply use the argument "but what if a 7 was thrown? And by the way... that's more likely to happen than a six."

    I already argued this point in a Place bet vs. Come bet comparison in this post, but you can easily substitute the word Place with Put. In the example in that post, instead of a $30 Place bet, you would use a Put of $5 flat and $25 odds.
    Yes, it has no better chance of being thrown than on any other roll... 6/36. So what? The advantage on the first roll is the fact that there are twice as many ways to win as there are to lose. When you bypass the Come, you bypass that advantage. The Come bet can win on one roll also. If the Come bet could only be won via the "two-roll scenario", then again, of course the Come is worse than a Put bet (certainly a Put on the 6 & 8, at least). But in reality, the Come bet can win via the "one-roll scenario" also.

    I'm not quite sure what your position is, zmoney... but anyone who thinks that a Put bet is more logical than a Come bet is not using logic at all (unless they believe in DI... you can decide for yourself if you think DI is logical). This line of thinking is based on assumptions (the assumption that the Come bet will not win on the first throw), not logic.

    The reason DI's may have a valid argument is because if they can reduce the chances of a 7 being thrown, then this obviously reduces the advantage of the Come bet on the first throw.

    I am perfectly centered. My argument is based on facts, not my personal opinion about Come bets.
    Really? Do we have to get falcon back here to explain why Put bets may not be good bets? Depending on the odds multiple you're taking and the number you're betting on, the Put bet may or may not be better than its Place bet counterpart.
     
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  16. zmoney, Apr 22, 2012

    zmoney

    zmoney Member

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    My position is.... for buy bets. Come bets take to much time/bankroll to start earning good money. I will concede though that if you do get into a hot roll you can make a ton of cash using a progressive come bet strategy. That being said I would think that if you like come bets and have the bank roll for it why not put the 4/10 maybe even the 5/9 so you can start making money right away?

    The thing you keep focusing on is the 6/8 which isn't a good put nor come bet. 6/8 basically pays the same whether you place it, put it or come it for the same amounts. I understand your argument that your wanting a sort of hedge against a 7. So it all boils down to play styles. Personally, when I have the dice, I'm up on my numbers from the come out working I want to start winning from the get go I'm not a conservative player at all.

    Again in my experience buy bets are the best way to go if you have an aggressive play style whereas come bets are a good way to go if you're more conservative and have a bank roll that can with stand a couple hands of #'s hitting then a seven out and you not collecting. I've tried a come bet strategy and when there was a hot shooter it was good (but again my buy bet strategy works just as good) but when a couple of #'s were rolled and the seven showed its ugly head I was down a good chunk of change.
     
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  17. Southern-Comfort, Apr 22, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    And this is different from you assuming there is a decision on the first roll, how? I am simply basing my opinion on what is condisered an average roll. Establish a point and the 7-out comes 6 rolls after. True, there isvariance.. there are PSO's and there are two hour rolls... but rather than deal with every possible roll, lets stick to what it all averages out to at the end of the day.


    Your arguments sound more desperate with each post. Of course I don't know. But based on the average roll, I have one more roll of the dice to make money with a Put than a Come, don't I? Can you see that? Of course you can't.

    Thank you. As a dedicated Place better I will accept your compliment!


    On the first roll after we make the bets, the Put does (assuming average roll length). If the roll is a PSO, the Come does... but how often do we see a PSO compared to a non-PSO.. oh yeah, about one in six times.


    You must be a Republican politician. Saying the same thing over and over does NOT make it true. Compauring the two on an average roll
    Roll 1 = point established.
    Roll 2 = Put bet made on preferred number and come bet made
    Roll 3 = Put bet has a chance to win, come bet doesn't, however get set on a random number. Here let me interject.. average roll = 6 coming on sith roll.. you still can wil on the come with an 11, or lose it with a 2, 3 or 12.
    Roll 4 - The Put bet has its second chance to win, the Come bet has its first chance
    Roll 5 - The Put has its third chance to win, the come has its second chance
    Roll 6 - Seven out. Both Put and Come lose if either hasn't been made.

    Do you understand now? Of course you don't. You keep saying yoyr right over and over, therefore its true.

    I believe this has been covered, thank you. Have a day.
     
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  18. basicstrategy777, Apr 22, 2012

    basicstrategy777

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    SC says......." You must be a Republican politician. Saying the same thing over and over does NOT make it true. "




    Speaking about politicians.....what's the difference between a democrat...a republican....and a redneck..?


    You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children.

    Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you...

    You are carrying a Kimber 1911 cal. 45 ACP, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?

    Democrat's Answer:



    * Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

    * Does the man look poor or oppressed?

    * Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?

    * Could we run away?

    * What does my wife think?

    * What about the kids?

    * Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?

    * What does the law say about this situation?

    * Does the pistol have appropriate safety built into it?

    * Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?

    * Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

    * Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?

    * If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?

    * Should I call 9-1-1?

    * Why is this street so deserted?

    * We need to raise taxes, have paint & weed day.

    * Can we make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.

    * I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

    * This is all so confusing!





    Republican's Answer:

    BANG!






    Redneck's Answer:

    BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG ! BANG! BANG! BANG! Click..... (Sounds of reloading) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG!BANG! Click

    Daughter: 'Nice grouping, Daddy!' 'Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points?! '

    Son: 'Can I shoot the next one?!'

    Wife: 'You ain't taking that to the Taxidermist


    777
     
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  19. Southern-Comfort, Apr 22, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

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    For humor purposes its pretty funny. However, I'm pretty sure that Bin Laden and those hiding/defending him would sadly disagree. But keep repeating your joke over and over and I'm sure it'll become true. :)
     
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  20. zmoney, Apr 22, 2012

    zmoney

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    SC you had me until the Republican politician comment. It should be phrased any politician.
     
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